Starsiege: 2845 (Tribes Vengeance co-package)
by Eli McClanahan · in General Discussion · 06/25/2003 (12:24 pm) · 10 replies
This has been brought up before, but in a much larger (and hence more obscure) thread.
Hopefully some of you remember the original Earthsiege products, as well as Starsiege. Also, the Cyberstorm series followed the same story and basics.
SS: 2845 takes place immediately after the defeat of Prometheus, during the Chase. (This is what led to the creation of FTL ships, which carried the first humans to the wilderness. In other words, this is the setting for the first hints at Tribes.) If the mod (which is really more of a completely new game) goes over well with Sierra/Dynamix (or whoever they are now) then they'll package the game along with Tribes: Vengeance, since it's being developed free of charge by the large community of ES/SS supporters. The team has become large enough that they're rejecting most applications, although I'm sure if you prove to be a diety of modeling or such, they'll take you.
Right now they're pushing for the spotlight. The mech-like gaming style of this series was overlooked after Starsiege because it wasn't a massive hit. For this reason, we're basically on our own. The crew at 2845 is trying to make a product that's good enough to gain back the recognition the series needs to be officially continued. So, they've asked the community to go and spread the word. Hence, here I am. They're aiming for a total of 600 forum members and 1,000 site members.
You'll find the forums here: ccforums.mechnex.net
The main site (which is pretty nice, IMO) is here: www.mechnex.net/
If you would, take a look around and create an account if you've got the time.
They're keeping things pretty secretive, but they have released some shots of weapons and one or two base models they'll be using as templates.
Here's some screenshots of a test map they recently threw together in 10 minutes just to get an idea of how large the mission boundaries should be:
www.clancore.net/ssu/temp/shot5.jpg
www.clancore.net/ssu/temp/shot3.jpg
www.clancore.net/ssu/temp/shot4.jpg
[edit]: In case you're wondering, SS:2845 WILL have infantry, but no jetpacks as in Tribes. There's probably more screenshots hiding around in there, but I haven't checked yet. Just change the url.
Hopefully some of you remember the original Earthsiege products, as well as Starsiege. Also, the Cyberstorm series followed the same story and basics.
SS: 2845 takes place immediately after the defeat of Prometheus, during the Chase. (This is what led to the creation of FTL ships, which carried the first humans to the wilderness. In other words, this is the setting for the first hints at Tribes.) If the mod (which is really more of a completely new game) goes over well with Sierra/Dynamix (or whoever they are now) then they'll package the game along with Tribes: Vengeance, since it's being developed free of charge by the large community of ES/SS supporters. The team has become large enough that they're rejecting most applications, although I'm sure if you prove to be a diety of modeling or such, they'll take you.
Right now they're pushing for the spotlight. The mech-like gaming style of this series was overlooked after Starsiege because it wasn't a massive hit. For this reason, we're basically on our own. The crew at 2845 is trying to make a product that's good enough to gain back the recognition the series needs to be officially continued. So, they've asked the community to go and spread the word. Hence, here I am. They're aiming for a total of 600 forum members and 1,000 site members.
You'll find the forums here: ccforums.mechnex.net
The main site (which is pretty nice, IMO) is here: www.mechnex.net/
If you would, take a look around and create an account if you've got the time.
They're keeping things pretty secretive, but they have released some shots of weapons and one or two base models they'll be using as templates.
Here's some screenshots of a test map they recently threw together in 10 minutes just to get an idea of how large the mission boundaries should be:
www.clancore.net/ssu/temp/shot5.jpg
www.clancore.net/ssu/temp/shot3.jpg
www.clancore.net/ssu/temp/shot4.jpg
[edit]: In case you're wondering, SS:2845 WILL have infantry, but no jetpacks as in Tribes. There's probably more screenshots hiding around in there, but I haven't checked yet. Just change the url.
#2
*curses at excess amount of dev members just before he applied*
06/25/2003 (5:56 pm)
And I'm not.*curses at excess amount of dev members just before he applied*
#3
It was all very mechanical really, but it was fun. We had a lot of imagination, helped along by great artists such as Robert Caracol and Shawn Sharp, then filled out by writer Blake Hutchins. Having that many awesome people work together on the creative aspects of the storyline was very fulfilling. I loved Warhammer, so we even made a deal with a small board game company to create the Starsiege board game. I still have a pristine version as well as some killer Hercs painted by Robert.
At the same time we were creating all of this backstory and universe for our games to live in, Tim, Rick, Mark, and many other grreat programmers were busy developing the early version of Torque. In spite of the pressure from Cendant and the other continually more coporate driven people, this was one of the best times of my career in terms of development. After Vivendi took over and we could no longer accept laying off more good people while a greedy CEO/Chairman executed a brain dead acquisition and "deworsification" strategy, we were able to use our position in Dynamix to negotiate the Tribes 2 technology licensing deal, which is now Torque.
As our disaspora jetted out of the growing Vivendi mess, I felt incredible loss for all of the intellectual property we left behind. Red Baron, Aces of the Pacific, The Incredible Machine, the 3D Ultra series, Trophy Bass, Starsiege, Rise of the Dragon, and many, many more. Most of these languish in corners of a corporate behemoth, unkown to many people. We vowed never again to let anybody own our intellectual property rights.
I have been watching your SS2 team with interest since you have made your first attempts. In many emails and posts I have encouraged your various teams and projects to hook up and make a mecha game. Your teams have some awesome artists and good programmers. I wish you luck, but I still have to make a plea:
Don't be sucked in by the dark side. You are talented people and you don't need the mechanical story that me and the team assembled five years ago. You can make your own. Don't use the Unreal engine, no matter how seductive it seems. Use the Torque, or use the Nebula, use anything that will allow you to make money from your creation and to own the IP when you are done.
Why give something to the same company that owns Universal Studios, the world's largest water company, and the world's largest music company, among other things? You guys deserve better.
The mecha market is ripe for a comeback and you guys should not hand it to Vivendi for nothing. Imagine building a small, but rabid on-line community that loves what you are doing, and is willing to pay you to make your game better. You listen to your customers continually making your game better and building a larger audience. Eventually, your mecha storyline becomes the "default" story that one thinks of when thinking of this genre.
Spread this word. You guys are being taken to the cleaners.
-Jeff Tunnell GG
06/25/2003 (7:42 pm)
I helped craft the storyline that you are talking about. It is also a little known fact that Crhis Cole was actually the architect of the massive storyline that was able to tie together Cyberstorm and Earthsiege, and set the stage for the Starsiege Universe. From Chris' initial storyline and outline that he and I worked out, we were able to come up with a compelling universe that contained both Tribes and Starsiege.It was all very mechanical really, but it was fun. We had a lot of imagination, helped along by great artists such as Robert Caracol and Shawn Sharp, then filled out by writer Blake Hutchins. Having that many awesome people work together on the creative aspects of the storyline was very fulfilling. I loved Warhammer, so we even made a deal with a small board game company to create the Starsiege board game. I still have a pristine version as well as some killer Hercs painted by Robert.
At the same time we were creating all of this backstory and universe for our games to live in, Tim, Rick, Mark, and many other grreat programmers were busy developing the early version of Torque. In spite of the pressure from Cendant and the other continually more coporate driven people, this was one of the best times of my career in terms of development. After Vivendi took over and we could no longer accept laying off more good people while a greedy CEO/Chairman executed a brain dead acquisition and "deworsification" strategy, we were able to use our position in Dynamix to negotiate the Tribes 2 technology licensing deal, which is now Torque.
As our disaspora jetted out of the growing Vivendi mess, I felt incredible loss for all of the intellectual property we left behind. Red Baron, Aces of the Pacific, The Incredible Machine, the 3D Ultra series, Trophy Bass, Starsiege, Rise of the Dragon, and many, many more. Most of these languish in corners of a corporate behemoth, unkown to many people. We vowed never again to let anybody own our intellectual property rights.
I have been watching your SS2 team with interest since you have made your first attempts. In many emails and posts I have encouraged your various teams and projects to hook up and make a mecha game. Your teams have some awesome artists and good programmers. I wish you luck, but I still have to make a plea:
Don't be sucked in by the dark side. You are talented people and you don't need the mechanical story that me and the team assembled five years ago. You can make your own. Don't use the Unreal engine, no matter how seductive it seems. Use the Torque, or use the Nebula, use anything that will allow you to make money from your creation and to own the IP when you are done.
Why give something to the same company that owns Universal Studios, the world's largest water company, and the world's largest music company, among other things? You guys deserve better.
The mecha market is ripe for a comeback and you guys should not hand it to Vivendi for nothing. Imagine building a small, but rabid on-line community that loves what you are doing, and is willing to pay you to make your game better. You listen to your customers continually making your game better and building a larger audience. Eventually, your mecha storyline becomes the "default" story that one thinks of when thinking of this genre.
Spread this word. You guys are being taken to the cleaners.
-Jeff Tunnell GG
#4
There have been some minor attempts to create something entirely new, but it never pulls together the same kind of support that something "official" can. Usually, anything else is viewed as a pipe dream, thrown together by one or two hopefuls that won't be able to come through in the end.
Mainly, it's not so much that we're trying to accomplish anything for ourselves - we're just trying to revive a part of our common history. If there was a better way to go about it, I'm sure we'd pull together, but the workload is too hard for the willing (and inexperienced).
We definitely have a bad taste in our mouth when in comes to Sierra/Dynamix/Vivendi/Havas/etc., but I think pretty much all of us feel that we want to make our own art rather than a game. If someone else leeches off of that, off of our blood and sweat, it's a price we're willing to pay.
It's not very logical, but neither is sticking to a 4 or 5 year old game. :)
Thanks for your response, Jeff. I don't really buy many games myself, but SS was the first PC game I owned, I think. (Unless you count those 500 game in one CD packages.) It's what got me here at GG, after hearing about the possibility of a SS2 for Torque. I can't say I've learned much in terms of technical abilities, but it has motivated me to focus on the minor talents I already have.
Anyway, I'm rambling. I'm pretty sure after the project is done, and has been submitted, everyone will break up again. Hopefully our initial goal of gaining back interest in such a great line of games will be realized, although we may have wasted a few months for no real reason.
06/25/2003 (9:41 pm)
The big problem (of sorts) is that we all love the universe that was created for Starsiege, as well as the atmosphere and physical game setup, so that's what unites us. It's a tight community that's united primarily by the time we've spent on the game, but also by the game that brought us together.There have been some minor attempts to create something entirely new, but it never pulls together the same kind of support that something "official" can. Usually, anything else is viewed as a pipe dream, thrown together by one or two hopefuls that won't be able to come through in the end.
Mainly, it's not so much that we're trying to accomplish anything for ourselves - we're just trying to revive a part of our common history. If there was a better way to go about it, I'm sure we'd pull together, but the workload is too hard for the willing (and inexperienced).
We definitely have a bad taste in our mouth when in comes to Sierra/Dynamix/Vivendi/Havas/etc., but I think pretty much all of us feel that we want to make our own art rather than a game. If someone else leeches off of that, off of our blood and sweat, it's a price we're willing to pay.
It's not very logical, but neither is sticking to a 4 or 5 year old game. :)
Thanks for your response, Jeff. I don't really buy many games myself, but SS was the first PC game I owned, I think. (Unless you count those 500 game in one CD packages.) It's what got me here at GG, after hearing about the possibility of a SS2 for Torque. I can't say I've learned much in terms of technical abilities, but it has motivated me to focus on the minor talents I already have.
Anyway, I'm rambling. I'm pretty sure after the project is done, and has been submitted, everyone will break up again. Hopefully our initial goal of gaining back interest in such a great line of games will be realized, although we may have wasted a few months for no real reason.
#5
Who is the main leader of your group?
-Jeff Tunnell GG
06/26/2003 (8:31 am)
If Blake Hutchins is still participating in this group, I think you could easily come up with a backstory that would support your mecha universe. You have great artists that would support that story. The gameplay will be the same regardless of the backstory.Who is the main leader of your group?
-Jeff Tunnell GG
#6
Jake "Trajan" Massie is the project lead. I believe his email is: trajan@mechnex.net or you can drop in the forums and give us a hollar if you like, that might give the followers something to be in shock over for awhile ;)
06/26/2003 (8:39 am)
Jeff,Jake "Trajan" Massie is the project lead. I believe his email is: trajan@mechnex.net or you can drop in the forums and give us a hollar if you like, that might give the followers something to be in shock over for awhile ;)
#7
Vivendi Universal is burdened by $14,000,000,000 (I thought I'd write out all the zeroes, looks more impressive) in debt and has been shopping for a buyer for VUGames for some time (it wants $800,000,000). Heard a rumour that Microsoft and Take Two were going to make a joint bid and then divide the assets, with PC assets to MS, console to TT, but that rumour doesn't appear to be part of the latest announcement.
I'd recommend the team verify after the sale whether the liberal approach to IP will be honoured by the new owner. But then again, I agree with Jeff and think giving away this work borders on insanity.
Actually, I'd like to see a game based on the Lego mechs here:
ccforums.mechnex.net/index.php?act=ST&f=56&t=785&s=3c301ace63b6a04b2f495ebda54b3...
ccforums.mechnex.net/index.php?act=ST&f=56&t=943&s=3c301ace63b6a04b2f495ebda54b3...
ccforums.mechnex.net/index.php?act=ST&f=56&t=712&s=3c301ace63b6a04b2f495ebda54b3...
Then again, that would have all it's own licensing issues.
06/26/2003 (1:25 pm)
story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20030626/bs_afp/france_media_vivendi...Vivendi Universal is burdened by $14,000,000,000 (I thought I'd write out all the zeroes, looks more impressive) in debt and has been shopping for a buyer for VUGames for some time (it wants $800,000,000). Heard a rumour that Microsoft and Take Two were going to make a joint bid and then divide the assets, with PC assets to MS, console to TT, but that rumour doesn't appear to be part of the latest announcement.
I'd recommend the team verify after the sale whether the liberal approach to IP will be honoured by the new owner. But then again, I agree with Jeff and think giving away this work borders on insanity.
Actually, I'd like to see a game based on the Lego mechs here:
ccforums.mechnex.net/index.php?act=ST&f=56&t=785&s=3c301ace63b6a04b2f495ebda54b3...
ccforums.mechnex.net/index.php?act=ST&f=56&t=943&s=3c301ace63b6a04b2f495ebda54b3...
ccforums.mechnex.net/index.php?act=ST&f=56&t=712&s=3c301ace63b6a04b2f495ebda54b3...
Then again, that would have all it's own licensing issues.
#8
Those lego models are made using... I forget what exactly. He mentions it in one of his threads, I believe.
06/26/2003 (3:19 pm)
I'd agree on being insane.Those lego models are made using... I forget what exactly. He mentions it in one of his threads, I believe.
#9
06/27/2003 (11:26 am)
We have enough talent to develop an entirely new game. We've chosen to go the route that allows us to work with a storyline and universe we love, while producing something playable on a shorter and cheaper timeline. So what if Sierra takes credit for our work? The truth will speak for itself. 
Torque 3D Owner Robert Blanchet Jr.