Torque Wiki
by Bil Simser · in Torque Game Engine · 06/23/2003 (9:03 am) · 59 replies
Hi guys,
Don't get me wrong. I think having as much information is great however I'm seeing a trend (and maybe this has been going on for awhile) in that there are several (I can count about 5 so far) in creating various walkthrough/newbie guides to TGE.
It makes me wonder if we, as the community, should be more community oriented. I was thinking maybe a wiki site for these docs might be a good way to keep things together. I'm not knocking the efforts of those who are creating the guides, but I think it would be more beneficial to both the TGE community both public and private in having a single unified source of living documents. With something like a wikiweb approach not only could everything be captured but searchable, subscribable, etc. and everyone can contribute (that's the power of wiki).
Anyways, let me know what you think and maybe we can organize and unify the documentation efforts that are going on all around the globe.
Thanks!
Don't get me wrong. I think having as much information is great however I'm seeing a trend (and maybe this has been going on for awhile) in that there are several (I can count about 5 so far) in creating various walkthrough/newbie guides to TGE.
It makes me wonder if we, as the community, should be more community oriented. I was thinking maybe a wiki site for these docs might be a good way to keep things together. I'm not knocking the efforts of those who are creating the guides, but I think it would be more beneficial to both the TGE community both public and private in having a single unified source of living documents. With something like a wikiweb approach not only could everything be captured but searchable, subscribable, etc. and everyone can contribute (that's the power of wiki).
Anyways, let me know what you think and maybe we can organize and unify the documentation efforts that are going on all around the globe.
Thanks!
#2
Maybe we could set it up at tork.zenkel.com, if GG isnt interested in hosting it... it would be a big help for everybody I think, the Nebula Wiki is great, e.g.
what'cha all think?
06/23/2003 (10:19 am)
/ME votes for a Wiki, too :)Maybe we could set it up at tork.zenkel.com, if GG isnt interested in hosting it... it would be a big help for everybody I think, the Nebula Wiki is great, e.g.
what'cha all think?
#3
[edit]Can't really help with hosting, but I'd be more than happy to volunteer my time to moderate the Wiki.[/edit]
06/23/2003 (10:42 am)
Woohoo! A Wiki! Yes, let's PLEASE start TorqueWiki!!! This has been one of my secret hopes since buying a license, and since GG is currently asking for Engine Documentation from the community-at-large, it seems we could kill 2 birds with one stone here.[edit]Can't really help with hosting, but I'd be more than happy to volunteer my time to moderate the Wiki.[/edit]
#4
#1. I don't like Wiki's
#2. I have limited time to go to 20 different sites to find information about the engine, it needs to be centralized and the GG's forums are a central location.
[/opinion]
06/23/2003 (10:49 am)
[opinion]#1. I don't like Wiki's
#2. I have limited time to go to 20 different sites to find information about the engine, it needs to be centralized and the GG's forums are a central location.
[/opinion]
#5
The entire point of a Wiki is to have centralized location of an entire community's knowledge. (Per opinion #2) In fact, they are even more centralized than any forum, since instead of having X number of pointless and uniformative post topics to wade thru, you simply have a given page(s) dedicated to said issue.
But of course it does come down to preference and you are fully entitled to not appreciate the Wiki format, but just because it's there doesn't mean anyone's forcing you to participate.
And really, when you get right down to it, the _entire_ point of a Wiki, is so don't have to visit 20 sites, just 1. And in the end, the forum still retains its purpose, and the Wiki retains it's (entirely seperate) purpose. Both have reason to be.
06/23/2003 (10:59 am)
While forums are useful for having specific issues & ideas addressed, they aren't as useful as repositories of knowledge. Especially ones with such horribly inadequate search tools as these. (Hence GG's current request for Engine Documentation.) The entire point of a Wiki is to have centralized location of an entire community's knowledge. (Per opinion #2) In fact, they are even more centralized than any forum, since instead of having X number of pointless and uniformative post topics to wade thru, you simply have a given page(s) dedicated to said issue.
But of course it does come down to preference and you are fully entitled to not appreciate the Wiki format, but just because it's there doesn't mean anyone's forcing you to participate.
And really, when you get right down to it, the _entire_ point of a Wiki, is so don't have to visit 20 sites, just 1. And in the end, the forum still retains its purpose, and the Wiki retains it's (entirely seperate) purpose. Both have reason to be.
#6
06/23/2003 (11:35 am)
The point I object to most is the movement of information AWAY from the GG's site. There are many documentation subjects that NEED to have controlled access, and GG's is the only place at the moment that can reliably control that access. 
#7
-Jeff Tunnell GG
06/23/2003 (12:15 pm)
The Torque wiki would have to be at our site and controlled by our login or else all of our private code doco is out the door. Community wikis can get quickly out of control, so we would need some moderators. Rick and I just talked about this and he is going to comment as well. We are very interested in getting a GG wiki up and running.-Jeff Tunnell GG
#8
06/23/2003 (12:23 pm)
Good point Jeff; I forgot about the code privacy issue.
#9
I agree that it should be hosted at GG. If it can tie into our logins then all the better because we'll be able to see the private (and public) stuff based on SDK purchase. I didnt' suggest it just because I didn't know what the resources at GG were like but it's probably the best place to be.
Awaiting the beginning of the fun.
06/23/2003 (1:09 pm)
Cool. Another idea that seems useful.I agree that it should be hosted at GG. If it can tie into our logins then all the better because we'll be able to see the private (and public) stuff based on SDK purchase. I didnt' suggest it just because I didn't know what the resources at GG were like but it's probably the best place to be.
Awaiting the beginning of the fun.
#10
Its fine by me =)
06/23/2003 (1:30 pm)
As long as people don't start being stupid and edit the pages, replacing everything on them to read something like :Quote:
GARAGEGA3MEZ Suux0RZZZ!!!
Y00 Subscrib00rz R St00pppid!!! W00t!!1
Its fine by me =)
#11
I had tried to figure if there was any benefit to some form of a hybrid wikki/forum system but they do not seem like complementary systems to me. Would having a forum thread attached to each wikki page be helpful?
We are making huge progress on Torque documentation and moving toward DocBook as the internal format. This will allow us to generate web pages as well as PDF's, maybe even a printed book! I would like for future doc pages to have an attached forum thread like php.net and mysql.com do with their documentation.
The real trick is harvesting the data in the wikki's and forums and rolling it back into the official documentation. I don't see any way to so that without a human editor, scanning for the good (and correct) content.
Let's keep this thread alive. Post your ideas as well as experiences with PHP+MySQL based wikki packages. This is not going to happen overnight but it's on my radar and with your assistance even earlier.
--Rick
06/23/2003 (1:40 pm)
As you all know I did a little work on the forums (while on vacation) and also had a bit of time to ponder where our forums should go next. There are several nice polished forums systems out there but they really don't solve the problem I see that we have which is how to harvest all the great information buried in the forums. Yeah full text search would help a little but it's still buried and unless you enter the magic keyword you'll never find find it.I had tried to figure if there was any benefit to some form of a hybrid wikki/forum system but they do not seem like complementary systems to me. Would having a forum thread attached to each wikki page be helpful?
We are making huge progress on Torque documentation and moving toward DocBook as the internal format. This will allow us to generate web pages as well as PDF's, maybe even a printed book! I would like for future doc pages to have an attached forum thread like php.net and mysql.com do with their documentation.
The real trick is harvesting the data in the wikki's and forums and rolling it back into the official documentation. I don't see any way to so that without a human editor, scanning for the good (and correct) content.
Let's keep this thread alive. Post your ideas as well as experiences with PHP+MySQL based wikki packages. This is not going to happen overnight but it's on my radar and with your assistance even earlier.
--Rick
#12
06/23/2003 (1:58 pm)
Man, ever time I hear the word "Wiki" I keep thinking back to that Budweiser commertial with the ferret that goes, "Wiki, wiki, wiki." Good advertising.
#13
06/23/2003 (2:06 pm)
Well if you delete all the flames in the forums we will have about 20 posts left. :)
#14
06/23/2003 (2:07 pm)
Could someone clarify for me exactly what a wiki is?
#15
06/23/2003 (2:15 pm)
Basically a webpage anyone can edit through a form.. kinda like what we are doingf right here.. except you could edit the entire page
#18
Some information that may be usefull while going forward with this idea:
Linking Doxygen to Wiki
More Doxygen to Wiki Linking
TikiWiki upcoming 1.7 version will have wiki2PDF conversion
06/23/2003 (3:18 pm)
A wiki is a form of living document.Some information that may be usefull while going forward with this idea:
Linking Doxygen to Wiki
More Doxygen to Wiki Linking
TikiWiki upcoming 1.7 version will have wiki2PDF conversion
#20
06/23/2003 (5:52 pm)
Basically a Wiki like someone said, is a living document. Why? Simple. Everyone has access to edit any page of the Wiki. So you can add pages or delete entire content. Don't worry, there are rollbacks so if someone posts something inappropriate or deletes something it can always be restored. 
Torque Owner Mike Stoddart