Have we created a monster?
by Tank Dork · in ThinkTanks · 06/09/2003 (8:50 am) · 13 replies
As with all new programs.. the users of Think Tanks have managed to find some bugs.. The question now is.. how serious are they and should they be considered determental to game play...
Here is my opinion and others will follow. We owe it to the creaters of this awsome game so they can gauge the potential impact of these matters.
Arrow Pad Escape:There is only one map in the whole game which allows for this expolit. Cranium Crater in the Lush series. By aligning the arrows you can launch your tank onto a little island just off the mainland.
This exploit has little or no impact on game play. It is a fun thing to do and should be left in the game.
These are the reasons it has no impact:
(1) There is nowhere to hide on the island so in Battlemode you are no safer there than on the mainland. If you have the
scrum.. you won't last long either.. a few area effect lobs will get you.
(2) In order to do it you have to align the pads. Anyone can stop you just by changing the second pad.
(3) Others can get to the island too.. You will be hunted like the dog you are.
Sinking Launch:This exploit is a bit more serious. It
could be a potential problem. It is done by simply "sinking" your tank into a suitable piece of terrain and then being "launched" out by the program as it tries to remove your object from below the mesh.
This problem is more than likely in the engine itself.
The main problem with "fixing" this is.. you would have to "smooth" the maps out!!! No way.. we like to jump! Its what makes the game fun!
These are the reasons I do not believe it to be a major problem and unless it is easily fixed should be left alone:
(1)The odds of getting a "successfull" launch to another island is 1 in 5, which means you may successfully make it to another island ~1 time per game (if that).
(2)You can easily be killed while "sinking" or have the scrum removed. There are limited places to "sink" and you will not be able to do it in a hostile game.
In Battlemode even if you did escape.. you would be no threat and would not win anyways.
In Scrum.. I have never seen a scrum game where the pursuit is light enough to allow anyone time to get a sink going.. so if you did it.. it would be without the scrum.. and who cares.. thats one less player to worry about.
That is my take on this after a weekend of the funniest game play I have seen in any other game!
To sum up my above post for you "skimmers"...
Don't get to excited about fixing the exploits we have discovered.. they are not that bad and we the players can successfully "Police" the griefers that may try using these.
Plus if it stays like this you add a whole new group of gamers.. the "Speed Junkies"... You guys know who you are...
"Off to get another "fix".. I am having withdrawls"
Tank Dork
Here is my opinion and others will follow. We owe it to the creaters of this awsome game so they can gauge the potential impact of these matters.
Arrow Pad Escape:There is only one map in the whole game which allows for this expolit. Cranium Crater in the Lush series. By aligning the arrows you can launch your tank onto a little island just off the mainland.
This exploit has little or no impact on game play. It is a fun thing to do and should be left in the game.
These are the reasons it has no impact:
(1) There is nowhere to hide on the island so in Battlemode you are no safer there than on the mainland. If you have the
scrum.. you won't last long either.. a few area effect lobs will get you.
(2) In order to do it you have to align the pads. Anyone can stop you just by changing the second pad.
(3) Others can get to the island too.. You will be hunted like the dog you are.
Sinking Launch:This exploit is a bit more serious. It
could be a potential problem. It is done by simply "sinking" your tank into a suitable piece of terrain and then being "launched" out by the program as it tries to remove your object from below the mesh.
This problem is more than likely in the engine itself.
The main problem with "fixing" this is.. you would have to "smooth" the maps out!!! No way.. we like to jump! Its what makes the game fun!
These are the reasons I do not believe it to be a major problem and unless it is easily fixed should be left alone:
(1)The odds of getting a "successfull" launch to another island is 1 in 5, which means you may successfully make it to another island ~1 time per game (if that).
(2)You can easily be killed while "sinking" or have the scrum removed. There are limited places to "sink" and you will not be able to do it in a hostile game.
In Battlemode even if you did escape.. you would be no threat and would not win anyways.
In Scrum.. I have never seen a scrum game where the pursuit is light enough to allow anyone time to get a sink going.. so if you did it.. it would be without the scrum.. and who cares.. thats one less player to worry about.
That is my take on this after a weekend of the funniest game play I have seen in any other game!
To sum up my above post for you "skimmers"...
Don't get to excited about fixing the exploits we have discovered.. they are not that bad and we the players can successfully "Police" the griefers that may try using these.
Plus if it stays like this you add a whole new group of gamers.. the "Speed Junkies"... You guys know who you are...
"Off to get another "fix".. I am having withdrawls"
Tank Dork
About the author
#2
My $.02
Bill
AKA "him"
06/09/2003 (10:14 am)
I would have to agree, It's fun to see how many Islands you can get to but it does not give you any kind of advantage other than bragging rights (and funny screen grabs).My $.02
Bill
AKA "him"
#3
honestly, i think the sinking thing should be removed, simply because i have no interest in it, and i dont't want to deal with wanks zipping off all over the place.
secondly, my install seems to be corrupt, and i never see islands off shore, just a lot of sky.
sour grapes :)
06/09/2003 (10:55 am)
I'm feeling rather ornery. honestly, i think the sinking thing should be removed, simply because i have no interest in it, and i dont't want to deal with wanks zipping off all over the place.
secondly, my install seems to be corrupt, and i never see islands off shore, just a lot of sky.
sour grapes :)
#4
and Mike.. does this mean we will loose our little "pad" island too.. gasp.. please say it isn't so.. say it isn't so...
"Maybe I should get back to work..."
Tank Dork
06/09/2003 (1:24 pm)
I don't think we will see anyone zipping around using the sinking expolit.. the only one I have seen usable that keeps you on the playing field is the one by the tree on the center hill in Cranium Crater... it will launch you down into the rock bed at a mind blowing speed.. but in the time it takes you to set it up and sink.. you could have driven there and back twice =Pand Mike.. does this mean we will loose our little "pad" island too.. gasp.. please say it isn't so.. say it isn't so...
Quote:Ooh -Z- you are in trouble.. better burn the evidence =)
Now launching onto an island while carrying the scrum...that's another matter. Hopefully nobody will do that before we fix the bug.
"Maybe I should get back to work..."
Tank Dork
#5
(But boy is it funny when you do it. The bots just come pouring over than edge lkooking for the scrum. It also makes for a nice challenge with a defined objective and a need for strong teamwork.
"Is it set?"
"Okay, I'm fresh"
"I'll get the scrum"
...
"Dang Tree"
Too bad the goal doesn't show up over there... hehe)
The sinking method is generally too slow and random to be used for tactical purposes. It only takes one person in the server who isn't interested in Island Hopping to make it really hard to do...
Oddly, the island hopping screenshots might have had an unexpected plus. Driving additional traffic to these forums. A number of players asked last night where to find the forums with the screenshots we've been posting. We replied: GarageGames.com
-- 56k Lag Man
06/09/2003 (2:53 pm)
It's very difficult to exploit island hopping as a battle tactic. As is evidenced by how hard it is sneak the scum over to the little island so you can watch the parade of bots falling off the edge. The bots don't know what you are up to, and they still screw you up 98% of the time. (But boy is it funny when you do it. The bots just come pouring over than edge lkooking for the scrum. It also makes for a nice challenge with a defined objective and a need for strong teamwork.
"Is it set?"
"Okay, I'm fresh"
"I'll get the scrum"
...
"Dang Tree"
Too bad the goal doesn't show up over there... hehe)
The sinking method is generally too slow and random to be used for tactical purposes. It only takes one person in the server who isn't interested in Island Hopping to make it really hard to do...
Oddly, the island hopping screenshots might have had an unexpected plus. Driving additional traffic to these forums. A number of players asked last night where to find the forums with the screenshots we've been posting. We replied: GarageGames.com
-- 56k Lag Man
#6
@Chris - yes, you will lose the island when we update the servers. But don't worry, we are in no hurry because this is more of a fun bug than anything (but eventually someone will decide to play spoiler with it so we do want to patch it).
06/09/2003 (5:07 pm)
@Tally Ho - your installation isn't corrupt. You only see the islands beyond if your detail settings are set to high. Medium and low cull out the parts of the terrain that aren't on the play field. That's why those people on the islands probably look like they are jumping up and down to you -- client says they are low, server says high, client says low, servers says high...@Chris - yes, you will lose the island when we update the servers. But don't worry, we are in no hurry because this is more of a fun bug than anything (but eventually someone will decide to play spoiler with it so we do want to patch it).
#7
heh, nah. As you already said, it is incredibly tough to get there in an actual game. That was done with collaboration between all other human players. Trying to do it mid game, with everyone trying to stop you AND while you are in the lead is a virtual non-starter.
It was fun to test though and watch the confused bots cliff dive trying to reach the scrum. It is also none too difficult for another tank to make it across and take what little health you would have left when on that island thus returning the scrum anyway.. especially as,as tha point, all the other players would be cooperating in order to get the scrum back again.
It's a fun bug and can only really be exploited/used in games which are being played with that specific purpose in mind. Trying any of these mid game is a serious disadvantage to the player attempting it.
On some maps, there are areas where the sinking can be used skillfullly to carry you across the distance of the map very quickly.. (quickler than it would take to drive there - even including the sinking time) but the risks involved are large. If people want to take that gamble and they have the skill to do so, so be it. The best tanks to use for exploiting this bug, are the heavies, and the heavies are incredibly slow hulks as it is. If it gives them a slight alternative option then fair game in my opinion. Most people dont play heavies in scrum games anyway.
The only time when island hopping may be an issue is in a team scrum game, but as I was experimenting with a few people last night, in a game against 6 bots, it was incredibly tough to remain in the lead, have the arrow pads lined up, be on maximum health and have the scrum at the launch point. Every time we managed to successfully get the flag off the main island there was only about 40 seconds of the game left anyway.
The 'bug' of island hopping and sinking has been and I think still will be great fun for players giving them something else to mess around with occasionally whilst honing their driving skills and control. It a speed junkie thing yeah and is almost like finding a 'secret level' on another game. If it gives a bit more fun to the players then let it stay. Its given us great finding, testing and exploiting it, and I'm sure that further down the line new groups of players will be doing the same. It has brought a lot more players together and added more communication in game between players, brought more people to the forums (even if only to view screenshots) and has helped in a small way to build the community. In a competitive game, even I cannot see it as being useful or advantageous in anyway though. It may even help convert some of the demos to players as they want to try the heavies at it etc.
I shall probably carry on reaching for the skies and shooting for the stars every once in a while as a break from the frantic scrambles of scrum games etc. However, I don't think you'll find me attempting any of them mid-game, it's just too risky and unpredictable.
-Z-
06/09/2003 (5:43 pm)
Quote:Ooh -Z- you are in trouble.. better burn the evidence =)
heh, nah. As you already said, it is incredibly tough to get there in an actual game. That was done with collaboration between all other human players. Trying to do it mid game, with everyone trying to stop you AND while you are in the lead is a virtual non-starter.
It was fun to test though and watch the confused bots cliff dive trying to reach the scrum. It is also none too difficult for another tank to make it across and take what little health you would have left when on that island thus returning the scrum anyway.. especially as,as tha point, all the other players would be cooperating in order to get the scrum back again.
It's a fun bug and can only really be exploited/used in games which are being played with that specific purpose in mind. Trying any of these mid game is a serious disadvantage to the player attempting it.
On some maps, there are areas where the sinking can be used skillfullly to carry you across the distance of the map very quickly.. (quickler than it would take to drive there - even including the sinking time) but the risks involved are large. If people want to take that gamble and they have the skill to do so, so be it. The best tanks to use for exploiting this bug, are the heavies, and the heavies are incredibly slow hulks as it is. If it gives them a slight alternative option then fair game in my opinion. Most people dont play heavies in scrum games anyway.
The only time when island hopping may be an issue is in a team scrum game, but as I was experimenting with a few people last night, in a game against 6 bots, it was incredibly tough to remain in the lead, have the arrow pads lined up, be on maximum health and have the scrum at the launch point. Every time we managed to successfully get the flag off the main island there was only about 40 seconds of the game left anyway.
The 'bug' of island hopping and sinking has been and I think still will be great fun for players giving them something else to mess around with occasionally whilst honing their driving skills and control. It a speed junkie thing yeah and is almost like finding a 'secret level' on another game. If it gives a bit more fun to the players then let it stay. Its given us great finding, testing and exploiting it, and I'm sure that further down the line new groups of players will be doing the same. It has brought a lot more players together and added more communication in game between players, brought more people to the forums (even if only to view screenshots) and has helped in a small way to build the community. In a competitive game, even I cannot see it as being useful or advantageous in anyway though. It may even help convert some of the demos to players as they want to try the heavies at it etc.
I shall probably carry on reaching for the skies and shooting for the stars every once in a while as a break from the frantic scrambles of scrum games etc. However, I don't think you'll find me attempting any of them mid-game, it's just too risky and unpredictable.
-Z-
#8
2 players on a small playing area (Pad jump island) one with scrum and both low on health.
Rules are as follows:
No shooting
You need to allow other player onto island.
play "sumo" style until one is knocked off and dies, score 1 point for knocking a player off, and 1 point if you still are in posesion of the scrum. Best 2 out of 3 rounds.
Anywaz, Sinking is very unpredictable. both in time and desired direction. Most of the good sinking spots will spit you out of the normal playing area and often into the mists for a quick death.
Us airboys are doing it for fun, and it helps with Tank control. I was in a heavy with scrum, and Z was in a light. It was almsot impossible for him to Ram me and steal the ball, and i credit the high manuverblity of the heavy, and the driving skills i have devolped to correctly align myself for a launch.
I jsut hope they come out with a map us Airboys can use to the fullest.
06/11/2003 (8:51 am)
new game withen a game, Gladitorial Scrum2 players on a small playing area (Pad jump island) one with scrum and both low on health.
Rules are as follows:
No shooting
You need to allow other player onto island.
play "sumo" style until one is knocked off and dies, score 1 point for knocking a player off, and 1 point if you still are in posesion of the scrum. Best 2 out of 3 rounds.
Anywaz, Sinking is very unpredictable. both in time and desired direction. Most of the good sinking spots will spit you out of the normal playing area and often into the mists for a quick death.
Us airboys are doing it for fun, and it helps with Tank control. I was in a heavy with scrum, and Z was in a light. It was almsot impossible for him to Ram me and steal the ball, and i credit the high manuverblity of the heavy, and the driving skills i have devolped to correctly align myself for a launch.
I jsut hope they come out with a map us Airboys can use to the fullest.
#11
11/19/2003 (12:56 pm)
Wow, an on topic thread. I'm impressed.
#12
12/19/2003 (3:08 pm)
I think the next version should not kill you on islands, or atleast do so a lot slower. 
Mike Jahnke