GarageGames Chats - Everyone Please Read

#1 Sorry I dont use IRC at all.
so im not about to drop by.

I would prefer a forum based chat, why not?
it is easier to read.
and much less intrusive, as well the chat can go on longer.

#2 How in gods name do you have a forum based chat?
And for the record, if you use GameSpy you use IRC. It cant exactly harm you to do it again if the chat was on a topic you were interested in.

#3 From my perspective, chat is something I get dragged into, not something I participate in willingly. The realtime nature of IRC kills it for me. I don't have the luxury of being able to babysit a chat window.

That's my long-winded way of repeating what badguy just said :-) Forum-based discussions have much greater utility.

(For the record I don't use Gamespy either)

#4 me neither no gamespy here.

No irc.

what you mean how you have a forum based chat?
open a thread and start posting.

#5 I don't participate chats like this, for a couple of reasons but the main one is IRC is just to damn finicky and is crusty compared to the alternatives, the other reasons are time, and time, and did I mention time? Much easier to read the log afterward unless I have some specific real-time need for information. I just don't have the time or patience to futz around with IRC to try and convice it to let me join a server . . .

Because I have some PITA clients, I recluctantly have AIM and MSN accounts, I used to prefer ICQ just because the client was not a constant flashing advert or some other crap I had no control over. Trillian "fixes" that and I have un-installed AIM and MSN clients.

So my suggestion is move away for IRC and to some other protoccol.

#6 We (BraveTree) would be happy to have a chat if anyone would be interested in what we have to say.

Big question is, what do people want to know and what format to have it in?

Forums are ok, but I don't usually follow threads or post to them in a timely manner. Email lists are a little better, but I still lag on responding. I am on IRC all the time. We have our own channel on the MaxGaming servers.

The moderated chats are better for getting a lot of information out there quick, but I much prefer chats of the unmoderated variety (more interactive).

One of the big problems I have with chats is that they turn into like these 'events' that you have to block out time for (like a meeting). The value to us is minimal, and we want to help people in whatever way we can, but it would suck for us to come to a 'meeting' that is for the community and no one shows up but us.

Topic choice might be an issue. What topics do people want to see covered and why would an IRC chat be better than these forums for any particular topic?

#7 I seem to remember going to some of the early chats. It ended up being like reading the log of the chat REALLY slowly. So I decided to just skip the chats, and read the logs.

The fact that they were completley moderated is what drove me away. I'd much rather read a log of an interview.

I dont know if that's how the chats still are, but that's why I stopped going.

#8 For the Reaction Engine Chats its more layed back than a moderated chat. It starts off moderated with Chris Cole asking a question which he thens opens up and allows everyone to chat about it. I am not sure how many of you would rather see this method over the traditional moderated chats or what topics you'd like to see but I'm sure all feedback would be welcomed by GarageGames, MaxGaming Technologies, and the developers themselves. So what kind of chats would you like and what topics do you want to talk about?

--Bryan

#9 Jarrod: Trillian supports IRC so no problem there. You have to be the first person I've ever heard call IRC finicky. Dalnet and Efnet servers might be but thats because they cant handle the user load they get anymore.

Badguy: It'd be really annoying to try and follow a forum based chat w/ the possibility of 30+ people constantly replying to messages. It'd be a disaster. I kind of wonder if you even played online games before. Majority of them use IRC. (Which once again brings up my question... FINICKY?!)

Point of a realtime chat is that you can ask questions and actually get an answer back right away from people who know what they're talking about. Rather then the forum where you ask questions and hope to god someone might be willing to reply to it.

Josh: To be perfectly blunt, we found the original GG format to not be up to par to what pretty much everyone else who does IRC chats does. Pre-Asked Questions and Pre-Thought up answers. May as well have posted it as an interview.

Besides if time is such a problem, how come no one has given periods of time that would be best for them?

#10 Well, this could be due to the fact that GarageGames community is heavliy fragmented geographically. I, for example, rarely bother reading about chats as, the thinking is: most likely, I will not be able to attend them, although this coud be dead wrong.

The main problem IMHO is that I even dont bother, and I suspect that it is a problem of many here. Maybe GarageGames should emphasise on geography while announcing chat sessions. "Europe Chain Reaction Chat This Friday" would catch my eye.

Second, even if I feel partially determined to take a peep in some chat, I often forget or miss the time. From the point of view of a person who lacks any webdev knowledge, it is easily fixed:) - I'd vote for small banner on GG sidebar with countdown for closest chat sessions. If I see that there is hour until the chat, I'll organize my time most likely. If I see that chat is happening currently, I definetly will join it. banner should lead to info about the room and server or java chat directly.

Just my 2 cents of course.

#11 Generally I don't mind IRC chat, it can be very useful. Considering the nature of the community here, though, being multi-national and comprised of many people with different schedules, it may be better to have a forum type chat. Perhpas even open a new forum or two where people can address questions directly to Bravetree or other companies. I personally would find that to be of great benefit, as questions could be well-worded, and answers could be given more thought than in a real-time situation. It won't have to be an event, but just like a new forum. I realize we already have tons of forums, but I think a "Bravetree" forum would be very useful.

Just my 10 bits.

#12 @Sebastien - I am well aware that Trillian supports IRC, it is that configuring IRC in general is a complete PITA. Half the servers won't let me join because of some cryptic configuration errors or I have not filled out one of the poorly documented propeller-head options correctly or security or something. There is just so little return on the investment of time.

Plain and simple the IRC is not worth the trouble for most people to fool with, you want more people to participate you have to make it easier to participate.

In case nobody noticed it is 2003 and there are LOTS of better alternatives to IRC!

#13

Quote:there are LOTS of better alternatives to IRC!

You've said this twice without stating what you think is better? That might help those of us too thick to read a calendar :o)

#14 I know very little about IRC aside from what I've learned from just being IN IRC. It works just fine for me. Methinks a lot of you just had one or two bad experiences and branded it for life.

#15 I have yet to see ANY alternative to IRC that can provide compareable features.

As for the "Cryptic configuration settings" not every IRC network is an open network, nor are many servers on the popular networks available for general use, or they have a limit on the number of connections they will support.

And as for the "Easy to participate"... you can't get much easier then using the Java IRC client.

Forums have their own problems, slow interaction, a high signal to noise ratio, harder to keep focused.....

Mailing lists are easy to ignore, and suffer from the same problems as forums.

NNTP (aka News Servers) also suffer from the same problem as Mailing lists.

#16 >> I kind of wonder if you even played online games before.

Sebastian, to be perfectly blunt, I read this response to badguy and and now I really, really wonder a lot of things about you. There is more to the online world than the tiny segment you are familiar with. I've been playing online games since the MID-SEVENTIES, and still do.

You are wondering why there has been a lack of chat participation. You have been shown one of probably many different reasons why that might be, and yet you've chosen in badguy's case to cast aspersions on him rather than learn from his statements (and the statements of others, including myself, who carry the same opinion).

To be perfectly blunt, perhaps part of the problem lies within Maxgaming Online ? Who knows ? I sure don't, but you might find out if you look. Good luck.

#17 I think a forum section on building Indie Games and Studios is a great idea as opposed to a regular chat. There are many groups in the GG community (not just BraveTree and 21-6) that have advice to offer about their success/failures creating both games and full-blown studios. Also, as some have mentioned, we have a wide variety of geographic locations in this community that chats do no accommodate well. A common forum allows everyone to participate evenly with prepared questions and answers which are often more informative than open chats with partial answers and so many tangents. Using forums also allows those of us with busy schedules to ask/answer questions at our own pace.

Suggested topics for this new forum might be Remote Team Management, Tools, Game Design, Game Production, Game Testing, Sales & Marketing, Finances, and Legal. There are some similar forums already on GG but they are a bit scattered in different sections. Possibly bringing them together under one section and getting some of the published and soon-to-be published studios participating will help centralize the knowledge.

The reality is that none of us know how to do this right yet. Even the current run of games at GG are just the beginning and there is still so much to learn. This community has been awesome when it comes to technical learning about Torque or otherwise. Evolving into a learning tool that also focuses on building games that sell and building a studio would be outstanding and something I know our team would benefit from.

Justin Mette
21-6 Productions

#18 Well said Ken.

sure I've played my share of games.
and I chat in them all time, but the information is lost.
and with a lowly 25 people in the game, it can be hard to follow all the valuable statements.

Even in a Controlled chat where people ask questions and people get thier time slot to respond, does not have the same worth as Here.
where Each and everyone submits thier opinion, for review by all interested parties on Thier own time, and the response is not lost.
it is here waiting to be read.

its a little late to respond when reading a log,
its a little to late to ask questions relating to the topic in a log.

but I will add that if there was a Timer on this site.

Like Nauris Krauze suggested, with a html link thru to irc I might use it.

#19

Quote:
You've said this twice without stating what you think is better? That might help those of us too thick to read a calendar :o)

read a calendar or search the web or read my first statemeent completely for that matter.

Every major IM has the ability to host moderated chats . . . with much less hassle than IRC.

#20 I've personally connected to IRC maybe a dozen times, apart from specifically trying to contact people that I know prefer IRC.

Apart from talking with those people I was hunting, I don't think I've ever seen a worthwhile conversation taking place in an IRC channel. (And this does include the 2-3 times I've tried the #garagegames channel.) I'm sure worthwhile chat is going on somewhere sometime, but my timing must be bad.

That's really the root of the problem, timing. Chat means I've got to have a window open exactly when the information is being submitted.

I much prefer forums, because I can connect to them whenever I like and follow the conversation. I don't need to keep some time wasting little window open and keep jumping back and forth to check for responses.

If GG wants to host Q&A with developers, I would much prefer something more like slashdot's interviews - the community submits questions, the interviewee thinks about them and submits responses.