Export Character for 3ds max 2009 to dts -issue with root Z level & mount nodes
by elvince · in Artist Corner · 12/31/2009 (11:51 am) · 27 replies
Hi all,
I spent a lot of time to read forum thread & TDN but I can't find any useful on my issue.
I created a mesh rigged with biped in 3DS max.
I load the DTS exporter plugin
When I export the dts, all my "eye", "cam", "mountXX" nodes are deleted.
When I load the dts file in T3D, the root node is ok, but when I used the standard dsq animation, the character is moved down on the Z axis to his pelvis.
I check the pivot point of my character and it is at 0,0,0.
for the moment, I'm using the default config file. This might be my issue for the nodes?
For the hierarchy I setup the same as the Forge Soldier .max file of T3D Beta.
Thanks for your help and happy new year!!
I spent a lot of time to read forum thread & TDN but I can't find any useful on my issue.
I created a mesh rigged with biped in 3DS max.
I load the DTS exporter plugin
When I export the dts, all my "eye", "cam", "mountXX" nodes are deleted.
When I load the dts file in T3D, the root node is ok, but when I used the standard dsq animation, the character is moved down on the Z axis to his pelvis.
I check the pivot point of my character and it is at 0,0,0.
for the moment, I'm using the default config file. This might be my issue for the nodes?
For the hierarchy I setup the same as the Forge Soldier .max file of T3D Beta.
Thanks for your help and happy new year!!
About the author
Recent Threads
#22
I remember my first character, which Logan supplied suggestions for; I used the stock KORK Character Studio rig and put my custom mesh to it....both rigid style and as a skinned mesh. I would have been fairly floundering if I'd started right away with my custom work.
It will take a little time to crest the learning curve of Torque asset creation; once the few caveats are learned, it's really a good format to use...
Keep pluggin' away!
01/08/2010 (9:27 am)
Yes, using a 'control' type object[stock SDK asset] to prototype and see how things function is a good workflow...then go 'custom'! FTW!I remember my first character, which Logan supplied suggestions for; I used the stock KORK Character Studio rig and put my custom mesh to it....both rigid style and as a skinned mesh. I would have been fairly floundering if I'd started right away with my custom work.
It will take a little time to crest the learning curve of Torque asset creation; once the few caveats are learned, it's really a good format to use...
Keep pluggin' away!
#23
Well said man. Just poking at the files while you read the documents will really help explain many things that you are seeing. Overall DTS exporting and most problems that a person encounters with it is are pretty easy to solve.
With that said its even easier now for Torque3D licensees since all of the animation source is provided which makes its even easier to find a BIP of the animation in question, apply it to your file, add a sequence helper and export.
01/08/2010 (11:30 am)
@RexWell said man. Just poking at the files while you read the documents will really help explain many things that you are seeing. Overall DTS exporting and most problems that a person encounters with it is are pretty easy to solve.
With that said its even easier now for Torque3D licensees since all of the animation source is provided which makes its even easier to find a BIP of the animation in question, apply it to your file, add a sequence helper and export.
#24
Thanks for the updates. I was able to find the source files as per your comment. They will clearly help me a lot.
I look into the documentation again to see if I miss something and this was the case.
in tdn.garagegames.com/wiki/DTS/3dsmax/Creating_a_Complex_Character
it was clearly state that to reuse a existing dsq, you bip01 must at the same height as the one used in the DSQ creation.
I thought that a dsq can be use like Bip in Max, so whatever the size of the Mesh, until the bones were there and rigged the animation is working. And this is not the case... Now I clearly see the benefits of having the stock animation source bip files.
With them, we can extract the animation that fit our model/mesh without any constraints!!
Is there any good thread about creating DSQ files?
I know you need to set a sequence helper but what more. On this DTS menu, there no link to DSQ creation :(
tdn.garagegames.com/wiki/DTS
I will look into .max in T3D source to get this, but it could be great to have a reference to understand all the parameters.
One thing on those animation, all .Max are 1 unit=1 inches whereas torque is 1 unit = 1 meter. Sounds strange to release max file in not the standard unit setting. Did I miss something?
What is the use of the unlink node? is it just to have the cam alone?
I look into this document http://fosters.realmwarsgame.com/tools/DTS_Nodes.pdf where Logan contribute, and no unlink node description is in it :(
I know it's a lot of question, but as I moving forward with T3D and DTS forward, I just try to understand how things work to understand the artist workflow and work efficiently.
Many thanks again for your time.
@eb,
FYI, The torqueguide chm on www.torque.abigholeintheweb.com/public_system/artists/exporter_related/max/ is not working :(
01/08/2010 (4:21 pm)
@Logan, Rex,Thanks for the updates. I was able to find the source files as per your comment. They will clearly help me a lot.
I look into the documentation again to see if I miss something and this was the case.
in tdn.garagegames.com/wiki/DTS/3dsmax/Creating_a_Complex_Character
it was clearly state that to reuse a existing dsq, you bip01 must at the same height as the one used in the DSQ creation.
I thought that a dsq can be use like Bip in Max, so whatever the size of the Mesh, until the bones were there and rigged the animation is working. And this is not the case... Now I clearly see the benefits of having the stock animation source bip files.
With them, we can extract the animation that fit our model/mesh without any constraints!!
Is there any good thread about creating DSQ files?
I know you need to set a sequence helper but what more. On this DTS menu, there no link to DSQ creation :(
tdn.garagegames.com/wiki/DTS
I will look into .max in T3D source to get this, but it could be great to have a reference to understand all the parameters.
One thing on those animation, all .Max are 1 unit=1 inches whereas torque is 1 unit = 1 meter. Sounds strange to release max file in not the standard unit setting. Did I miss something?
What is the use of the unlink node? is it just to have the cam alone?
I look into this document http://fosters.realmwarsgame.com/tools/DTS_Nodes.pdf where Logan contribute, and no unlink node description is in it :(
I know it's a lot of question, but as I moving forward with T3D and DTS forward, I just try to understand how things work to understand the artist workflow and work efficiently.
Many thanks again for your time.
@eb,
FYI, The torqueguide chm on www.torque.abigholeintheweb.com/public_system/artists/exporter_related/max/ is not working :(
#25
I am glad that our suggestions will help.
With regards to the bip01 position its important only when you want to keep the player model at the same height. As soon as the bip01 transform begins to change you will start to see the model shift around when animations load and unload. Which can be a good or bad thing depending if thats your desired effect or not :)
DSQs can be loaded onto other DTS shapes in Torque Engines provided that their hierarchy structure matches. If there is a mismatch they will not load at all and will spit out an error. This is a very useful method to use when you have a bunch of character models that all use the exact same biped skeleton that are sized the same because you can share one set of animations across multiple models. When you introduce a DSQ onto a DTS that does use the same biped sizing probably can start to occur with the DSQ stretching the biped bones in question to match the desired result that's in the DSQ. This is why you see so many of the old TGE/TGEA models with stretched out hips because they kept referencing the Orc animations that were exported this way.
With regards to the animation source. Yes this is exactly why they were provided so that users will have less frustration and worry about adjusting animations to fit their characters models. This way they can just apply and export and it will all work (as opposed to having to recreate all the animations like I did for the Torque3D animation source and then make these changes, whichi s very time consuming).
DSQs are incredibly easy to create. Add a sequence helper to your scene. Go into the Dope Sheet in Max (or equivilentin your 3D app you are using) and add start and end keys for the animations start and end. If you like the .max files provided in the Torque3D source already have a sequence setup that you can utilize. Once the sequence is setup just press the "export sequence" button and it will create the DSQ. As a note however, DSQs only hold transform information (move, scale and rotate) and nothing else.
One other thing about sequence creation for characters. I usually will work with 2 files. A copy of my character mesh and the animation that I work from to make certain the movement is right. When I am ready to export I will save this file to an myfileAnimationame_export.max, delete the character mesh and then just export the biped. It helps keep the file sizes down.
With regards to units and scale. It doesnt matter what your 3DS Max scene units are set to. For DTS exporting 1 unit of anything equates to 1 meter in the engine if you want to go 1:1 ratio. You can of course use whatever sizes you want for the pros/cons of it.
No one has ever explained what Unlink is for. Its more than likely just a marker for the engine to find.
I hope that helps answer your questions and a bit more.
01/08/2010 (5:28 pm)
@elvinceI am glad that our suggestions will help.
With regards to the bip01 position its important only when you want to keep the player model at the same height. As soon as the bip01 transform begins to change you will start to see the model shift around when animations load and unload. Which can be a good or bad thing depending if thats your desired effect or not :)
DSQs can be loaded onto other DTS shapes in Torque Engines provided that their hierarchy structure matches. If there is a mismatch they will not load at all and will spit out an error. This is a very useful method to use when you have a bunch of character models that all use the exact same biped skeleton that are sized the same because you can share one set of animations across multiple models. When you introduce a DSQ onto a DTS that does use the same biped sizing probably can start to occur with the DSQ stretching the biped bones in question to match the desired result that's in the DSQ. This is why you see so many of the old TGE/TGEA models with stretched out hips because they kept referencing the Orc animations that were exported this way.
With regards to the animation source. Yes this is exactly why they were provided so that users will have less frustration and worry about adjusting animations to fit their characters models. This way they can just apply and export and it will all work (as opposed to having to recreate all the animations like I did for the Torque3D animation source and then make these changes, whichi s very time consuming).
DSQs are incredibly easy to create. Add a sequence helper to your scene. Go into the Dope Sheet in Max (or equivilentin your 3D app you are using) and add start and end keys for the animations start and end. If you like the .max files provided in the Torque3D source already have a sequence setup that you can utilize. Once the sequence is setup just press the "export sequence" button and it will create the DSQ. As a note however, DSQs only hold transform information (move, scale and rotate) and nothing else.
One other thing about sequence creation for characters. I usually will work with 2 files. A copy of my character mesh and the animation that I work from to make certain the movement is right. When I am ready to export I will save this file to an myfileAnimationame_export.max, delete the character mesh and then just export the biped. It helps keep the file sizes down.
With regards to units and scale. It doesnt matter what your 3DS Max scene units are set to. For DTS exporting 1 unit of anything equates to 1 meter in the engine if you want to go 1:1 ratio. You can of course use whatever sizes you want for the pros/cons of it.
No one has ever explained what Unlink is for. Its more than likely just a marker for the engine to find.
I hope that helps answer your questions and a bit more.
#26
- TO FIX: Simply download the .chm to your desktop, right click the file and select Properties. In the properties panel you will see a button that says "unblock" or "allow"...click that button and you will have a working chm file. ;)
01/08/2010 (6:16 pm)
Elvince: .chm files that access the web during execution are default-ly blocked by windows for security purposes. - TO FIX: Simply download the .chm to your desktop, right click the file and select Properties. In the properties panel you will see a button that says "unblock" or "allow"...click that button and you will have a working chm file. ;)
#27
Ok that's perfectly clear. Now I will do some sample DSQ and that should be fine.
I will keep the rule that to reuse a DSQ that's mean same skeleton and same mesh size.
For Unlink, does it position matters? Must it be at the same position as cam?
Cam & Eye marker are only mandatory for "player" mesh and no AI, correct? or should I provide them in all case?
@Eb
Yep you're right and this document is really full of useful information for export DTS & DSQ! That's great that you setup a repository like this!!
@All,
As many skilled artist are there, I have another Artist question.
How do you manage customization on Skin like scars, tatoo?
I saw that you can have multiple layer on a material, but how do you deal that? Are you doing 1 texture file per customization (with the proper mask)? Are you using IFL and set the frame to the customization you want to see? does the texture size should match or can we use a lower size with the same ratio?
In you know the memory impact of different solution I like to heard about them.
Coding question, how do you deal with the material as it is shared between all instance of this DTS.
For armor and so on, I know that we just have to play with mesh hiding so I'm set with it ^^
01/09/2010 (4:53 am)
@Logan,Ok that's perfectly clear. Now I will do some sample DSQ and that should be fine.
I will keep the rule that to reuse a DSQ that's mean same skeleton and same mesh size.
For Unlink, does it position matters? Must it be at the same position as cam?
Cam & Eye marker are only mandatory for "player" mesh and no AI, correct? or should I provide them in all case?
@Eb
Yep you're right and this document is really full of useful information for export DTS & DSQ! That's great that you setup a repository like this!!
@All,
As many skilled artist are there, I have another Artist question.
How do you manage customization on Skin like scars, tatoo?
I saw that you can have multiple layer on a material, but how do you deal that? Are you doing 1 texture file per customization (with the proper mask)? Are you using IFL and set the frame to the customization you want to see? does the texture size should match or can we use a lower size with the same ratio?
In you know the memory impact of different solution I like to heard about them.
Coding question, how do you deal with the material as it is shared between all instance of this DTS.
For armor and so on, I know that we just have to play with mesh hiding so I'm set with it ^^
Torque Owner TheGasMan
G.A.S. [+others]
- In theory and use, yeah. afaik.
Elvince, I would suggest that you first export supplied players with a .bip animation or 2 found on the web. Once you have achieved that with perfect workign order, then use your own player with the .bip for the animation export.
Smaller, precisely placed steps will actually help you win this race sooner. ;)