MMO Idea; Is it possible?
by Benjamin Hoock · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 12/13/2009 (1:50 am) · 4 replies
Hello ^^
I am a new member of the Torque Community and I am learning to use the T3D Tools at the moment. The big picture behind this is... I have an idea for a game I would like to play (and surely others will, I think) and because of no professional company is doing this... I will give it a try ^^
My Idea is a Game like "Beyond Protocol" http://www.beyondprotocol.com/, but more like Stoneage to late medieval age (Tech Tree based). Like some Kind of a more complex Age of Empires 1-2 with a big research tree, more ressources/materials to harvest (not Just more different, but more of the same kind with different stats; for example 5 different kinds of Wood -> each different material color, different stats for use in products like tools and weapons, the better a given stat on a material the better the quality of the weapon/tool (more damage for example)).
I want to have big Maps (or medium/small maps that are connected with each other), where Players have the feeling of REALLY building up a Tribe, then a Village, to a Big Civilization.
It would be cool if the "Humans" (NPC's) you own have the ability to terraform the map... so you would have to order them to flatten some space before you can build a house on it (the only thing this will cost is tools and time). Maybe even more... like REAL mines, so the NPC's should have the Ability to tunnel into a mountain and find some cool ressources there (like the Game "Wurm Online" http://www.wurmonline.com/).
Is it possible to make a button (GUI) to turn on/off a Grid on the Map? So the Players would have more precise control for the terraforming feature?
To not end up with 5 Huge Players on one server in the end... I like the idea of limiting the max possible NPC's a Player can have. Is this possible? How big can I set this numbers to? I thought of maybe 50-200 NPC's / each player (they start with a limit of 5, but the limit can be opened up in steps trough Research).
Another thing to mention is, that I want the NPC's to have an inventory, where you can equip them with tools, armor and weapons... so it is like a mix of the RTS and RPG Game Styles.
For the graphics I thought of a more or less free camera (so anybody can look at his Stuff the Way he likes to ^^), but with a button on the GUI to set the camera back to "Age of Empires" or "Settler 6" Style.
Which of these features are possible with T3D (just with T3D or is Source Code Editing needed)?
And yes... I know I know this is a really big Project, especially for someone between the Skillevel of a Newbie-Advanced Designer... but I am not in a rush and I WANT to have this game in the next 10 years :-P
If somebody is interested in "teaming up" to produce this game... I have to destroy some hopes here. Well, a lot of time later I surely will need some BIG Help (especially when it comes to MMO Infrastructre, Network and Database Management), but for now I just want to learn the T3D Engine, settling down the first concepts and features and play around with it to test it.
Oh and another question ;-D
I've seen the Villager Pack in the Shop... and wonder if it would be suitable for my project. I like the look and it is not too much of a High End Graphic (cause there will be situations where some hundreds
of NPC's will be on the same map and I want to have it still playable, at least at high end machines ^^).
By the Way... thx for this great Community, I did already learn some stuff from the forums and the Documentation.
I am a new member of the Torque Community and I am learning to use the T3D Tools at the moment. The big picture behind this is... I have an idea for a game I would like to play (and surely others will, I think) and because of no professional company is doing this... I will give it a try ^^
My Idea is a Game like "Beyond Protocol" http://www.beyondprotocol.com/, but more like Stoneage to late medieval age (Tech Tree based). Like some Kind of a more complex Age of Empires 1-2 with a big research tree, more ressources/materials to harvest (not Just more different, but more of the same kind with different stats; for example 5 different kinds of Wood -> each different material color, different stats for use in products like tools and weapons, the better a given stat on a material the better the quality of the weapon/tool (more damage for example)).
I want to have big Maps (or medium/small maps that are connected with each other), where Players have the feeling of REALLY building up a Tribe, then a Village, to a Big Civilization.
It would be cool if the "Humans" (NPC's) you own have the ability to terraform the map... so you would have to order them to flatten some space before you can build a house on it (the only thing this will cost is tools and time). Maybe even more... like REAL mines, so the NPC's should have the Ability to tunnel into a mountain and find some cool ressources there (like the Game "Wurm Online" http://www.wurmonline.com/).
Is it possible to make a button (GUI) to turn on/off a Grid on the Map? So the Players would have more precise control for the terraforming feature?
To not end up with 5 Huge Players on one server in the end... I like the idea of limiting the max possible NPC's a Player can have. Is this possible? How big can I set this numbers to? I thought of maybe 50-200 NPC's / each player (they start with a limit of 5, but the limit can be opened up in steps trough Research).
Another thing to mention is, that I want the NPC's to have an inventory, where you can equip them with tools, armor and weapons... so it is like a mix of the RTS and RPG Game Styles.
For the graphics I thought of a more or less free camera (so anybody can look at his Stuff the Way he likes to ^^), but with a button on the GUI to set the camera back to "Age of Empires" or "Settler 6" Style.
Which of these features are possible with T3D (just with T3D or is Source Code Editing needed)?
And yes... I know I know this is a really big Project, especially for someone between the Skillevel of a Newbie-Advanced Designer... but I am not in a rush and I WANT to have this game in the next 10 years :-P
If somebody is interested in "teaming up" to produce this game... I have to destroy some hopes here. Well, a lot of time later I surely will need some BIG Help (especially when it comes to MMO Infrastructre, Network and Database Management), but for now I just want to learn the T3D Engine, settling down the first concepts and features and play around with it to test it.
Oh and another question ;-D
I've seen the Villager Pack in the Shop... and wonder if it would be suitable for my project. I like the look and it is not too much of a High End Graphic (cause there will be situations where some hundreds
of NPC's will be on the same map and I want to have it still playable, at least at high end machines ^^).
By the Way... thx for this great Community, I did already learn some stuff from the forums and the Documentation.
#2
Yes I did read your MMO Thread before asking my Questions... but it is hard to find some special Info like I asked for. I thank you for answering my questions in a direct and very informative way.
Another thing that bothers me at the moment... will it kill the Network Communication with too much information transfered, if the NPC Villagers all have a Inventory for themself? So a player could equip some Villagers with different Tools, so they are workers now. And he can equip some with weapons and Armor to have Soldiers. Maybe I want to add some more RPG elements into this RTS... like the Villagers having Stats or Skills and they get raised trough using them... so a Villager you did use for Woodchopping, isn't basicaly a good Warrior out of the Box... sure he will get some Strengh and Stats like this through Woodchopping, which are also important for Fighting, but he have first to learn the use of a Weapon and Armor Use by actually some Degree of Training you can buy with Time and Ressources, but the most Part after that through Training. So the Idea is, giving them some Basics through military training (if researched later), but getting their fighting skills from Advanced to Super Elite will be harder to achieve (through battling AND Surviving of course ^^).
I want to have most elements to be like THE REALLIFE. Except for Hardcore Stuff like "Feeding your people". I think I will use ressources like Food just for Upgrades or actually "producing" new Villagers... to not make it THAT easy for players, producing villagers and training them will be very Food Intensive / expensive. This is the way I want to "simulate" the way of life. One Person in Reallife will consume a lot of Food from the time being born to the day he is a productive member of the community. So the idea behind this is make playing my game a good addition for killing freetime, but not to squeeze people to play the game (cause they have to feed their people and have to control the food harvest every hour or so).
12/15/2009 (4:21 am)
LOL, Ted by the Way... nice Avatar you have ^^Yes I did read your MMO Thread before asking my Questions... but it is hard to find some special Info like I asked for. I thank you for answering my questions in a direct and very informative way.
Another thing that bothers me at the moment... will it kill the Network Communication with too much information transfered, if the NPC Villagers all have a Inventory for themself? So a player could equip some Villagers with different Tools, so they are workers now. And he can equip some with weapons and Armor to have Soldiers. Maybe I want to add some more RPG elements into this RTS... like the Villagers having Stats or Skills and they get raised trough using them... so a Villager you did use for Woodchopping, isn't basicaly a good Warrior out of the Box... sure he will get some Strengh and Stats like this through Woodchopping, which are also important for Fighting, but he have first to learn the use of a Weapon and Armor Use by actually some Degree of Training you can buy with Time and Ressources, but the most Part after that through Training. So the Idea is, giving them some Basics through military training (if researched later), but getting their fighting skills from Advanced to Super Elite will be harder to achieve (through battling AND Surviving of course ^^).
I want to have most elements to be like THE REALLIFE. Except for Hardcore Stuff like "Feeding your people". I think I will use ressources like Food just for Upgrades or actually "producing" new Villagers... to not make it THAT easy for players, producing villagers and training them will be very Food Intensive / expensive. This is the way I want to "simulate" the way of life. One Person in Reallife will consume a lot of Food from the time being born to the day he is a productive member of the community. So the idea behind this is make playing my game a good addition for killing freetime, but not to squeeze people to play the game (cause they have to feed their people and have to control the food harvest every hour or so).
#3
Yeah, it's hard to tell who has, since so many people come through for this, so I just try to get people to read it (you're one of the few who read it first, lol).
Not unless you do something weird like start spitting out their inventories when they're not asked for. Just remember to only send data when needed, and only the data that is needed, and you should be okay.
Portaling NPCs in a house so that they don't transmit packets is one technique. LODs for objects are another (especially if you've got a lot in a field of view), and that extends to Player models as well. Tweaking the network settings is a must for high-population networked games. I haven't checked out the pack, but if it has LODs, then it's a very good pack (because you can always adjust LODs for objects). You can also LOD your NPC's AI and networking so that if they're idle, you don't process anything or if they're not visible to anyone, you stop processing their moves and animations. There's a million things you can do on this end. Pay attention to your draw calls, framerate-wise. I think I saved like 60 by consolidating a bunch of GUI elements that had been separate before. Also, if the player won't notice the shadows, then have the object not cast shadows (small ropes, short objects like pegs or small rocks), and that will save you some frames too. All this stuff is cumulative...
12/15/2009 (11:37 am)
Quote:Yes I did read your MMO Thread before asking my Questions...
Yeah, it's hard to tell who has, since so many people come through for this, so I just try to get people to read it (you're one of the few who read it first, lol).
Quote:will it kill the Network Communication with too much information transfered, if the NPC Villagers all have a Inventory for themself?
Not unless you do something weird like start spitting out their inventories when they're not asked for. Just remember to only send data when needed, and only the data that is needed, and you should be okay.
Quote:and wonder if it would be suitable for my project. I like the look and it is not too much of a High End Graphic (cause there will be situations where some hundreds of NPC's will be on the same map and I want to have it still playable, at least at high end machines ^^).
Portaling NPCs in a house so that they don't transmit packets is one technique. LODs for objects are another (especially if you've got a lot in a field of view), and that extends to Player models as well. Tweaking the network settings is a must for high-population networked games. I haven't checked out the pack, but if it has LODs, then it's a very good pack (because you can always adjust LODs for objects). You can also LOD your NPC's AI and networking so that if they're idle, you don't process anything or if they're not visible to anyone, you stop processing their moves and animations. There's a million things you can do on this end. Pay attention to your draw calls, framerate-wise. I think I saved like 60 by consolidating a bunch of GUI elements that had been separate before. Also, if the player won't notice the shadows, then have the object not cast shadows (small ropes, short objects like pegs or small rocks), and that will save you some frames too. All this stuff is cumulative...
Torque 3D Owner Ted Southard
Also, even though you seem to have a really good grasp on not forming a team right away while you work the design out, I wrote up a thread for making MMOs, which might help a bit. There's advice on the process in there, but after you read that, there's also almost a hundred links for middleware, books, and forum threads relating to getting the engine ready to be an MMO.