Full Games Development
by Ali AlShamsi · in Jobs · 12/10/2009 (5:23 am) · 21 replies
I have 6 games to be developed for 2010 and more coming, so am looking for long business relation. but we need a fixed prices based on game size because we want to make a game investment portfolio.
put in mind every game will be on all platforms supported here (wii, xbox, iphone, browser, desktop) and if possible the following three (Nintendo DS, PSP , PS3)
also you will be responsible for marketing and publishing the game (we expect minimum sales of 3000 copies) also all games are in downloadable format no selling CDs to the stores. In short we will simply provide the game descriptions with details and fund the development.. you will do all the rest.
Mostly all of the games we want to develop are casual games
as for example to the larger game it’s the same a 2d platform but with longer story and levels something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejKvr_JSaiE
Yet characters might be in 3D for better graphics and with extra stuff like designing magic spells and weapons etc or like final fantasy 8
the other ideas are stuff like 2d grand theft auto 2d
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdZ5r4cUHiE
but on google maps with multiplayer’s
and another one about wars using swords and weapons on multi player mode and network like dynasty warriors
also another one is something like feeding frenzy but with extra stuff like multi players and online game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYVxPdRPsT0
Remember I need a Fixed Price and Fixed Time based on Game Size and Type.
so if you are interested please send me your bid in the following format :
1- Type : 2D Games
• Size : Small
• Development Time: …………. Days
• Development Cost : ........ $
• Marketing and Publishing Cost: .......... $
• Exported to following platforms:
• Wii : Yes / No
• Xbox 360 : Yes / No
• iPhone : Yes / No
• Browser : Yes / No
• Desktop (Mac): Yes / No
• Desktop (Windows): Yes / No
• PSP : Yes / No
• PS3 : Yes / No
• Nintendo DS : yes / No
• Name of sample game : ……………..
• Link to similar work of yours: ……………..
2- Type : 2D Games
• Size : Medium
• Development Time: …………. Days
• Development Cost : ........ $
• Marketing and Publishing Cost: .......... $
• Exported to following platforms:
• Wii : Yes / No
• Xbox 360 : Yes / No
• iPhone : Yes / No
• Browser : Yes / No
• Desktop (Mac): Yes / No
• Desktop (Windows): Yes / No
• PSP : Yes / No
• PS3 : Yes / No
• Nintendo DS : yes / No
• Name of sample game : ……………..
• Link to similar work of yours: ……………..
3- Type : 2D Games
• Size : Large
• Development Time: …………. Days
• Development Cost : ........ $
• Marketing and Publishing Cost: .......... $
• Exported to following platforms:
• Wii : Yes / No
• Xbox 360 : Yes / No
• iPhone : Yes / No
• Browser : Yes / No
• Desktop (Mac): Yes / No
• Desktop (Windows): Yes / No
• PSP : Yes / No
• PS3 : Yes / No
• Nintendo DS : yes / No
• Name of sample game : ……………..
• Link to similar work of yours: ……………..
4- Type : 3D Games
• Size : Small
• Development Time: …………. Days
• Development Cost : ........ $
• Marketing and Publishing Cost: .......... $
• Exported to following platforms:
• Wii : Yes / No
• Xbox 360 : Yes / No
• iPhone : Yes / No
• Browser : Yes / No
• Desktop (Mac): Yes / No
• Desktop (Windows): Yes / No
• PSP : Yes / No
• PS3 : Yes / No
• Nintendo DS : yes / No
• Name of sample game : ……………..
• Link to similar work of yours: ……………..
5- Type : 3D Games
• Size : Medium
• Development Time: …………. Days
• Development Cost : ........ $
• Marketing and Publishing Cost: .......... $
• Exported to following platforms:
• Wii : Yes / No
• Xbox 360 : Yes / No
• iPhone : Yes / No
• Browser : Yes / No
• Desktop (Mac): Yes / No
• Desktop (Windows): Yes / No
• PSP : Yes / No
• PS3 : Yes / No
• Nintendo DS : yes / No
• Name of sample game : ……………..
• Link to similar work of yours: ……………..
6- Type : 3D Games
• Size : Large
• Development Time: …………. Days
• Development Cost : ........ $
• Marketing and Publishing Cost: .......... $
• Exported to following platforms:
• Wii : Yes / No
• Xbox 360 : Yes / No
• iPhone : Yes / No
• Browser : Yes / No
• Desktop (Mac): Yes / No
• Desktop (Windows): Yes / No
• PSP : Yes / No
• PS3 : Yes / No
• Nintendo DS : yes / No
• Name of sample game : ……………..
• Link to similar work of yours: ……………..
If you want to send your bid privately send it to this email : Ali.O.AlShamsi@gmail.com
Best regards,
Ali AlShamsi
put in mind every game will be on all platforms supported here (wii, xbox, iphone, browser, desktop) and if possible the following three (Nintendo DS, PSP , PS3)
also you will be responsible for marketing and publishing the game (we expect minimum sales of 3000 copies) also all games are in downloadable format no selling CDs to the stores. In short we will simply provide the game descriptions with details and fund the development.. you will do all the rest.
Mostly all of the games we want to develop are casual games
as for example to the larger game it’s the same a 2d platform but with longer story and levels something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejKvr_JSaiE
Yet characters might be in 3D for better graphics and with extra stuff like designing magic spells and weapons etc or like final fantasy 8
the other ideas are stuff like 2d grand theft auto 2d
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdZ5r4cUHiE
but on google maps with multiplayer’s
and another one about wars using swords and weapons on multi player mode and network like dynasty warriors
also another one is something like feeding frenzy but with extra stuff like multi players and online game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYVxPdRPsT0
Remember I need a Fixed Price and Fixed Time based on Game Size and Type.
so if you are interested please send me your bid in the following format :
1- Type : 2D Games
• Size : Small
• Development Time: …………. Days
• Development Cost : ........ $
• Marketing and Publishing Cost: .......... $
• Exported to following platforms:
• Wii : Yes / No
• Xbox 360 : Yes / No
• iPhone : Yes / No
• Browser : Yes / No
• Desktop (Mac): Yes / No
• Desktop (Windows): Yes / No
• PSP : Yes / No
• PS3 : Yes / No
• Nintendo DS : yes / No
• Name of sample game : ……………..
• Link to similar work of yours: ……………..
2- Type : 2D Games
• Size : Medium
• Development Time: …………. Days
• Development Cost : ........ $
• Marketing and Publishing Cost: .......... $
• Exported to following platforms:
• Wii : Yes / No
• Xbox 360 : Yes / No
• iPhone : Yes / No
• Browser : Yes / No
• Desktop (Mac): Yes / No
• Desktop (Windows): Yes / No
• PSP : Yes / No
• PS3 : Yes / No
• Nintendo DS : yes / No
• Name of sample game : ……………..
• Link to similar work of yours: ……………..
3- Type : 2D Games
• Size : Large
• Development Time: …………. Days
• Development Cost : ........ $
• Marketing and Publishing Cost: .......... $
• Exported to following platforms:
• Wii : Yes / No
• Xbox 360 : Yes / No
• iPhone : Yes / No
• Browser : Yes / No
• Desktop (Mac): Yes / No
• Desktop (Windows): Yes / No
• PSP : Yes / No
• PS3 : Yes / No
• Nintendo DS : yes / No
• Name of sample game : ……………..
• Link to similar work of yours: ……………..
4- Type : 3D Games
• Size : Small
• Development Time: …………. Days
• Development Cost : ........ $
• Marketing and Publishing Cost: .......... $
• Exported to following platforms:
• Wii : Yes / No
• Xbox 360 : Yes / No
• iPhone : Yes / No
• Browser : Yes / No
• Desktop (Mac): Yes / No
• Desktop (Windows): Yes / No
• PSP : Yes / No
• PS3 : Yes / No
• Nintendo DS : yes / No
• Name of sample game : ……………..
• Link to similar work of yours: ……………..
5- Type : 3D Games
• Size : Medium
• Development Time: …………. Days
• Development Cost : ........ $
• Marketing and Publishing Cost: .......... $
• Exported to following platforms:
• Wii : Yes / No
• Xbox 360 : Yes / No
• iPhone : Yes / No
• Browser : Yes / No
• Desktop (Mac): Yes / No
• Desktop (Windows): Yes / No
• PSP : Yes / No
• PS3 : Yes / No
• Nintendo DS : yes / No
• Name of sample game : ……………..
• Link to similar work of yours: ……………..
6- Type : 3D Games
• Size : Large
• Development Time: …………. Days
• Development Cost : ........ $
• Marketing and Publishing Cost: .......... $
• Exported to following platforms:
• Wii : Yes / No
• Xbox 360 : Yes / No
• iPhone : Yes / No
• Browser : Yes / No
• Desktop (Mac): Yes / No
• Desktop (Windows): Yes / No
• PSP : Yes / No
• PS3 : Yes / No
• Nintendo DS : yes / No
• Name of sample game : ……………..
• Link to similar work of yours: ……………..
If you want to send your bid privately send it to this email : Ali.O.AlShamsi@gmail.com
Best regards,
Ali AlShamsi
#2
You will have to consider a time for debugging else an open time project is a waste of money .. As for the developer he should count his profit from the development cost.. Cause we don't plan to share the sales profit since it will go to our investors. As for the budget we do not want to disclose it now for bidding process
12/10/2009 (10:14 am)
You will have to consider a time for debugging else an open time project is a waste of money .. As for the developer he should count his profit from the development cost.. Cause we don't plan to share the sales profit since it will go to our investors. As for the budget we do not want to disclose it now for bidding process
#3
I'm sorry, but if I ever hear something like this in a business meeting, I'd just pack up and walk out laughing.
12/10/2009 (10:21 am)
Wow... Those terms are the worst I've ever heard of. Asking a developer to forego profits just because you want them all to yourself? Even the big publishers don't do that in their most heavy-handed dealings.I'm sorry, but if I ever hear something like this in a business meeting, I'd just pack up and walk out laughing.
#4
That's all well and good, except where the developer is concerned, he has a (probably low) budget in mind which developers further push down by bidding on it. If a developer hits a snag in developing the project causing a time overrun, the developer eats the money for that time himself, which is also all well and good, since the developer agreed to that funding for a specific timeframe.
Where the plan goes south is that the developer must do all the work of marketing and publishing the game themselves, and then any profits from those efforts are now gone, because the fund takes every penny. So in order to remain in business, the developer would have to work on each project back to back continuously, or bid higher than what it costs (yet low enough to get the bid) to make it, in order to get ahead. There is no profit margin here for the developer, only short-term contracts.
I wonder what the intellectual property clauses for these projects are...
12/10/2009 (10:34 am)
To clarify my heavy-handed response: This is the begining of people trying to make "game funds", I believe. I've heard it talked about at a few investment conferences, and the sticking point the big investors had was the fact that software development is not an exact science. What this gentleman wants to do is get developers into an exact timeline so that he can create a sort of hedgefund of projects: If one fails, it failed as a known quantity of money and the loss is accounted for with the profits of the successes. That's all well and good, except where the developer is concerned, he has a (probably low) budget in mind which developers further push down by bidding on it. If a developer hits a snag in developing the project causing a time overrun, the developer eats the money for that time himself, which is also all well and good, since the developer agreed to that funding for a specific timeframe.
Where the plan goes south is that the developer must do all the work of marketing and publishing the game themselves, and then any profits from those efforts are now gone, because the fund takes every penny. So in order to remain in business, the developer would have to work on each project back to back continuously, or bid higher than what it costs (yet low enough to get the bid) to make it, in order to get ahead. There is no profit margin here for the developer, only short-term contracts.
I wonder what the intellectual property clauses for these projects are...
#5
Will thank you for making me look like Dr.evil :)
What u explained in you later post is true but depend on the fund.
We look at it as an outsource service. As for the fixed time its the skill of project management else its just not worth it. As for publishing and marketing you might hire people to do that or hire teams however you manage the project depend on your professionalism. As for our way to select a bid it do not depend on cost alone .. We look at quality too .. A cheap game with low quality is low or no sales. Its professionals requiring the service of professionals. Notice that we gave the bidder the freedom to put time and cost and the definition of the size. So its back to skills again. We will give the material and the game details so its down to constructing the blue prints
12/10/2009 (11:41 am)
Will thank you for making me look like Dr.evil :)
What u explained in you later post is true but depend on the fund.
We look at it as an outsource service. As for the fixed time its the skill of project management else its just not worth it. As for publishing and marketing you might hire people to do that or hire teams however you manage the project depend on your professionalism. As for our way to select a bid it do not depend on cost alone .. We look at quality too .. A cheap game with low quality is low or no sales. Its professionals requiring the service of professionals. Notice that we gave the bidder the freedom to put time and cost and the definition of the size. So its back to skills again. We will give the material and the game details so its down to constructing the blue prints
#6
Anyway we are a fair to our partners and this is only the first phase of selecting and negotiating the contract. So if you are intrested please participate else thank you for the feed back.
12/10/2009 (11:44 am)
Anyway we are a fair to our partners and this is only the first phase of selecting and negotiating the contract. So if you are intrested please participate else thank you for the feed back.
#7
I don't think you're evil- I don't even think you're run-of-the-mill bad. I just think that the efficiency of this project you have going is not at all good for the developer, business-wise, except for funding the development for the short-term.
Like I said before, I have no problem with the bidding process or that the developer may have to eat some time if they run over- because they bid on that in the first place. The problem is with taking 100% of the profit, but making that developer be the one to go pimp the product. If it were an outsource job where you did that work, it would be different, but I see no reason why this is a good business deal for a developer.
That's all fine, and like I said, that's a function of the bidding process, and I never argued that point:
My issue is this:
I can understand a majority of profits going to a publisher who funds, markets, and publishes a game. I cannot understand someone ordering up a cash cow and looking to keep 100% of profits. Maybe it's just me, and other points of view are welcome on this...
12/10/2009 (3:43 pm)
Quote:Will thank you for making me look like Dr.evil :)
I don't think you're evil- I don't even think you're run-of-the-mill bad. I just think that the efficiency of this project you have going is not at all good for the developer, business-wise, except for funding the development for the short-term.
Like I said before, I have no problem with the bidding process or that the developer may have to eat some time if they run over- because they bid on that in the first place. The problem is with taking 100% of the profit, but making that developer be the one to go pimp the product. If it were an outsource job where you did that work, it would be different, but I see no reason why this is a good business deal for a developer.
Quote:As for our way to select a bid it do not depend on cost alone .. We look at quality too .. A cheap game with low quality is low or no sales. Its professionals requiring the service of professionals. Notice that we gave the bidder the freedom to put time and cost and the definition of the size. So its back to skills again.
That's all fine, and like I said, that's a function of the bidding process, and I never argued that point:
Quote:the developer eats the money for that time himself, which is also all well and good, since the developer agreed to that funding for a specific timeframe.
My issue is this:
Quote:we don't plan to share the sales profit since it will go to our investors
I can understand a majority of profits going to a publisher who funds, markets, and publishes a game. I cannot understand someone ordering up a cash cow and looking to keep 100% of profits. Maybe it's just me, and other points of view are welcome on this...
#8
Hmmm I guess I understand your point better now. Will I was worried about covering the investment cost on the sales point. But now I think if the sales reach the critical point say for example 3000 copies any sales over that point we should share the profit with our developer that should keep the motivation up and keep it fair to our investors. I think this is fair enough
12/10/2009 (4:00 pm)
Hmmm I guess I understand your point better now. Will I was worried about covering the investment cost on the sales point. But now I think if the sales reach the critical point say for example 3000 copies any sales over that point we should share the profit with our developer that should keep the motivation up and keep it fair to our investors. I think this is fair enough
#9
12/10/2009 (4:30 pm)
That's a much better deal... 
#11
First, for a fixed bid project, I find it is impossible to make a reasonable bid on a project where there is very little design work done. If you have game descriptions and details, then those need to be shared with anyone wanting to make an intelligent bid. Large/small and 2d/3d is just not enough information.
The other point is that I don't find working for "payments later when we make money" to be all that appealing as a professional developer with bills to pay and a family to feed. So the fact you are willing to pay upfront for milestones etc is a positive step. I suppose that if you are willing to share profits with the dev after X number of copies, then its feasible to make a lower initial bid.
Anyway, the more information you can give a dev, so that they can figure out the work involved to a greater degree of accuracy, it is really in your favor(the publisher/funder). As a dev, if there are too many unknowns, then I will have to ask for a really high bid in order to cover all the possible outcomes.
12/10/2009 (5:05 pm)
Hey quick couple of comments here...First, for a fixed bid project, I find it is impossible to make a reasonable bid on a project where there is very little design work done. If you have game descriptions and details, then those need to be shared with anyone wanting to make an intelligent bid. Large/small and 2d/3d is just not enough information.
The other point is that I don't find working for "payments later when we make money" to be all that appealing as a professional developer with bills to pay and a family to feed. So the fact you are willing to pay upfront for milestones etc is a positive step. I suppose that if you are willing to share profits with the dev after X number of copies, then its feasible to make a lower initial bid.
Anyway, the more information you can give a dev, so that they can figure out the work involved to a greater degree of accuracy, it is really in your favor(the publisher/funder). As a dev, if there are too many unknowns, then I will have to ask for a really high bid in order to cover all the possible outcomes.
#12
12/10/2009 (5:13 pm)
Edited by Moderator as the post this responded to has already been removed.
#13
I have put sample games links and names you can build your bid based on that .. As for the description it won't matter since we look for economy of scale work therefore whatever description provided now will always change with new games so fixing the size on those samples is much preferred .. And by the way we pay the development on every phase done of a single project (so that penalty can be applied therefore make developer keep deadlines)
12/10/2009 (5:16 pm)
I have put sample games links and names you can build your bid based on that .. As for the description it won't matter since we look for economy of scale work therefore whatever description provided now will always change with new games so fixing the size on those samples is much preferred .. And by the way we pay the development on every phase done of a single project (so that penalty can be applied therefore make developer keep deadlines)
#14
The moderator who deleted my post needs to explain his actions. In no way was that a violation of the ToS.
You owe me an apology.
12/10/2009 (5:59 pm)
I don't see the difference between paying an individual for his time to develop a game vs paying a company for developing a game.The moderator who deleted my post needs to explain his actions. In no way was that a violation of the ToS.
You owe me an apology.
#15
That's a valid opinion to debate. Of course, stating it by trying to insinuate that I'm some sort of hypocrite trying to screw my team out of money is a bit far to take it, so while we're talking about apologies, you owe me one as well, Tony.
12/10/2009 (6:29 pm)
Quote:I don't see the difference between paying an individual for his time to develop a game vs paying a company for developing a game.
That's a valid opinion to debate. Of course, stating it by trying to insinuate that I'm some sort of hypocrite trying to screw my team out of money is a bit far to take it, so while we're talking about apologies, you owe me one as well, Tony.
#16
Guys can we focus on the subject ? Am waiting for the bids and I have deadlines to keep.. So I appreciate your cooperation here
12/10/2009 (6:36 pm)
Guys can we focus on the subject ? Am waiting for the bids and I have deadlines to keep.. So I appreciate your cooperation here
#17
12/10/2009 (6:43 pm)
Everyone please remain on topic. This thread is about Ali putting out a job for bid and discussion of the terms of that job. If you have an issue with the moderation of the site you can contact moderators@torquepowered.com to discuss it.
#18
I do think it's a little hypocritical to expect royalties on one hand, yet not offer them on the other hand.
I'm not saying you should give all of the proceeds to the developers... you're the main guy making it happen and you have the most at stake since you've put the bulk of the work into the project, but to not offer bonuses or a percentage of the profits doesn't seem any more fair to me than what Ali originally offered.
Sorry if I offended, but I just don't see the difference.
12/10/2009 (6:43 pm)
This is a debate not a personal attack so hopefully the Forum Nazi will let it continue... ;-)I do think it's a little hypocritical to expect royalties on one hand, yet not offer them on the other hand.
I'm not saying you should give all of the proceeds to the developers... you're the main guy making it happen and you have the most at stake since you've put the bulk of the work into the project, but to not offer bonuses or a percentage of the profits doesn't seem any more fair to me than what Ali originally offered.
Sorry if I offended, but I just don't see the difference.
#19
12/10/2009 (6:44 pm)
No offense taken. Let's let Ali have his bids and take this to email. 
Torque 3D Owner Ted Southard