Stabilised Gun?

#21 yeah, that was another of my suggestions. When you start the game, dont actually spawn. Start with the server message "press space to respawn". Then when you join the game you can shout out to your homies, tell everyone you're the master, and THEN spawn in the game without having to worry about anyone intrupting your brag session by killing you like the putz you are. :)

#22 *ahem*. On the topic of heavies vs. lights, I now think they are balanced, *except* the light gets to decide if there is going to be a fight or not! A light can always persue an injured heavy and win, but a heavy will always have a hard time zapping an injured light if they want to escape. Since most points in the game are to be had by targeting pre-softened targets, this is a clear advantage for the light. The heavy can only compete if there are players silly enough to hang around in it's sights!

If the heavy had better fire control as well as a better gun so that it could hit targets at a longer range, this would reduce the "light running away so you don't get the point but someone else with a faster tank gets it instead" advantage since you'd be able to finish them off unless they get behind cover really quick!

And I just know that someone's going to say that there are really tough players who use heavys, so I'll get in ahead that there are far more tough light players, so I think there is a real imbalance.

Everyone is born with a certain amount of complaining in them, and it has to all get out before they die. :)

#23 maybe the heavy's bullets should...be larger? travel faster?

signed, the putz

:)

nyuk

#24 I have to agree with Ben on this one. Aside from the occassional "good" heavy player (which isn't me) the heavy pretty much ends up getting owned.

Heavy in scrum... forget about it. This is a no brainer.
Scrum is about speed. Its about racing to an ever changing target.
A heavy may score a few (look at poor Hum [Bot]) but they will never lead the board consistantly.
The high (10 point range) scores in scrum are made by light tanks.
This is how it should be... its a speed game.

Heavy in battle.. is still owned. The only heavy who seems to have any chance is Hum [Bot], but I thinks its his laser guided area affect abilities...
There are some good heavy drivers out there... but like Ben said.. there are ALOT more tough light tank drivers and medium tank drivers.
I can speed in on a heavy (or medium for that matter) get off 7 or more good solid hits and bugger off before they can even turn on me... and I am just average.

A heavy should be just that, HEAVY.. a heavy (player driven) tank should be respected in battlemode. They should be more competative. They shouldn't be overbalancing but they should also be something players will want to play.
I have also read that the "balls" shot from a heavy are more damaging.. I do not see this in PvP. A light tank and a heavy go head to head, barrel to barrel.. the light tank will usually win. and if not the heavy is a smoking wreck... The heavy ammo may need a damage check.. maybe that is why they are not useful now...

"They were right... smoking is bad for you"
TANK DORK

#25 Ben makes some good points. Last night people were griping about light tanks as usual. So I switched to mid, naturally people saw this as a great opportunity to teach me a lesson since I was out of my light tank ;) And indeed they did for a little. The driving tactics are definitely different for a mid and a light, because the Mid has much tighter turn control (good traction). Once you get used to it, the mid is just fine. I think I ended the round in first place with 17 points... about 10 points up on anyone else in the game. Which was a little worse then I was doing in the light, but not much. I'll chalk up the difference to my inexperience driving a mid.

The next round Tally Ho and I both went with heavies. Tally was doing great and killed 5 tanks right off the bat before his braincase popped. I however did horridly, and mostly because I was being teamed up on by the other tanks. The Heavy is an offensive powerhouse, but when it's being hit from multiple tanks, it goes down pretty easily. At the end of the match Tally had 13 and I had 12, Hum was next closest with 5 or something.

The conclusions I drew from this experience was that all the tanks have advantages and disadvantages. The thing that makes the light good, is that good skill in driving and shooting can make up for it's weaknesses. The light has, well, light ammo.. and light armor. But you can compensate for that by playing the lights advantages skillfully. It doesn't matter how much armor you have if you don't get hit. And the light is arguably one of the hardest tanks to hit, because of it's speed and maneuverability.

That's why the best players play light, their skill can really make a difference. As others have pointed out, they decide when to fight and when not to fight. A certain strategic advantage, since they control the battle.

I found the mid to be enjoyable to play. It loses the control that the light has, but it's minimal. It is really easy to dodge bullets with the mid, maybe even easier then in the light. Also the mids have a TON of armor, but they can still move. The mid is a worthy challenge to the light. It suffers a little from not being able to get away from the lights, but it's turning ability, shot damage, and armor pretty much compensate for that. I'm surprised we don't see more good Mid players. Frankly I hate going up against a good mid in my light.

The heavy is a powerhouse, but it's also a sitting duck if everyone is targeting you. People tend to gang up on who ever is at the top of the score list. In a heavy there's no escape. Even if you can take out one tank, if there are 3 people shooting at you aren't going to last passed that. Since you are so slow, no amount of skill is really going to help you dodge.

In conclusion, the light tank does come out ahead. Because it is able to dictate where and when a fight happens. It can overcome its armor deficiency with maneuverability. When everyone gang's up on you (like they do when you're at the top) you are much harder to hit. This is probably the most glaring deficiency between the light and heavy. While the heavy is an offensive powerhouse, if it manages to get to the top of the score list, it quickly falls prey to a flock of smaller, faster, more maneuverable tanks.

One suggestion might be to allow the heavies to always have the speedy powerup. Since they are a more powerful (heavy) gunning platform it makes sense that they would be able to carry higher velocity munitions. (I realizes reality is the least of TT's concerns). What this would enable is the heavy to have a little more say in when and where combat takes place. They would have better accuracy (while standing still) over a longer range. In essence making them the snipers of TT. I know a lot of people who play games and play the sniper roll. giving up speed and rates of fire for that "One shot one kill" type of gameplay. Where you have to move slow and set up shots from afar. The heavies already have the essence of this type of gameplay. But i think giving them the Rapid fire powerup all the time (well the rapid fire targeting system, but the rate of firing and reloading would have to be tweaked) would really bring out the unique character and gameplay style for the heavy.

I could go on explaining why I think this idea has potential, but i'll let you draw you're own conclusions.

#26 I'll agree with most of what's been recently said. The heavies just don't seem to be particularly heavy. Their armour isn't (or at least, doesn't seem) a huge amount stronger than a mid, and as for the physics or it, it doesnt feel particularly heavy to drive or control other than for its sluggish movement. One slight nudge from even a light tank can knock a heavy off its aim. Sure, they can turn on the spot quicker, but the player controlling the heavy not only has to do that, but regain his aim as well and its easy for the light or mid to get in several shots on the heavy during this time, or even line it up for another nudge.

Dan also makes a nice comparison to 'sniper play'. In many games, I love to hide in the shadows with a sniper rifle and pick people off, and perhaps allowing the heavy to be a bit more of powerhouse sniper tank would add another tactical layer to the game.

Personally, I think I'd rather see the heavies have a bit more armour and maybe something like having its default as the rapid-fire mode or something.

As for being 'ganged up on'. Any tank will be at a disadvantage in this scenario, however, lights, and to some extent, mids have the option of evasion. Heavies do not. They need to be able to pick off approaching tanks at a distance before they get too close that it can't escape the onslaught from every side.

As regarding how well the different tanks actually score in a game. I think this is slightly less relevant. What I think more clearly states the slightly out-balanced differences between the tanks, is that hardly anyone plays a heavy. If made stronger with better shot power, perhaps more people would choose a heavy as it might be more appealing.

-Z-

#27 i think the heavies will be great tanks with modifications to their bullets and physics and such.


battlefield free for all is just not their forum. to me, it's for the mediums.

scrum and team scrum are for the lights.

now, we have to figure out the third game mode. where do the heavies have the advantage? i think there should be a third mode, like the one i mentioned earlier in this forum or another.

peace

#28 Heavies would automatically have a valuable role in any team game.

In team scrum, they would be good defensive units - perhaps just sitting atop higher points and sniping the enemy team as opposed to camping.

In team battlemode, again they would provide great support for the lights and mids.

However, one possible game variation would be some kind of 'Domination' game. Perhaps having three of the green capture points and the teams must try and control the majority of them for a set period of time.

Perhaps, 3 green areas are spawned, and a team must occupy any two of them for more than 30 seconds at which point, they score a point and three new green zones are spawned at different random locations

Heavies would have a far more crucial role here in defending these areas, whilst the lights and mids (with their speed) would attempt to attack any of those held by the opposing team.

-Z-

#29 Huh. Off topic, but there are three different spellings of the word dool in this thread.

#30 I have a server up called 'Heavy Testing'. It has alternate settings that are an attempt to give some affirmative action to the Heavy Tank.

Just a note, one to one the tanks were well balanced, but the 'gang up on the heavy' behavior sort of made it a pain to be a heavy driver. In 'Heavy Testing', the heavy is a hulking monster. Give all the tanks a whirl and let me know what you think.

Post comments here. Also want to mention there is a ThinkTanks channel on the MaxGaming irc server. Stop by to discuss all things ThinkTanks.

#31 Well, Hum[bot] has fun in that game :->

I played a bit (I'm not used to heavy) and that was fun; I think the heavy bullets punch more power and come in packs of 4 instead of 3. They also are faster; not as fast as the 'fast fire' ones but definitly a plus for snipping.
In fact, it is almost a bad idea to pick a 'powerup' since it ruins your targetting.

That game Hum won with 24, I was behind with 17 and the others had the odd 5 or so. I hid most of the time in the stone plains to try to dodge bullets.

#32 Ever since I bought the game ... I have always played heavy.

Of course I'ved tried playing around with smaller tanks but I found out early on that I really dont like running around the map and trying to dodge bullets while praying desperately that my armor lasts and I can still evave the player camping the goal.

What I really like was the anticipation of stopping someone from goaling. Heck! I dont even care if I don't score ...

The most fun that I had with ThinkTanks was with Team Scrum. Me and -Z- were playing heavy with Snappy as the light. We were unbeatable! Two heavy tanks in frot of a goal can stop the momentum of any other tanks.

HEAVIES RULE!!!