Stabilised Gun?
by Ben Lilburne · in ThinkTanks · 05/14/2003 (9:14 pm) · 32 replies
I noticed that the light tank appears to have a vertically stabalised gun, which makes it easier to fire when moving over bumps. Is this the "auto levelling gun" which is supposed to be in the heavy tank?
The light tank still seems far too powerful to me. The combination of the 8 shot clip and a stabilised gun seems to make it far too easy to use. Can't the heavy have faster shells or a better gunsight (so as to be better at shooting lights, which are very hard to land shots on with only 3 rounds at a time) or somthing to even things up?
The light tank still seems far too powerful to me. The combination of the 8 shot clip and a stabilised gun seems to make it far too easy to use. Can't the heavy have faster shells or a better gunsight (so as to be better at shooting lights, which are very hard to land shots on with only 3 rounds at a time) or somthing to even things up?
#2
The heavy can turn on a dime. Use that to your advantage and dodge shots. It's not as hard as it may seem to dodge bullets in ThinkTanks. Use the heavies superior turning abilities to your advantage.
05/15/2003 (12:49 am)
yes, I can verify, I play a light because I love to drive. But the heavy is actually more powerful. (I kill more in a heavy) In a straight dule between a good heavy pilot and a good light player, the heavy can usually take the light tank twice before he goes down.The heavy can turn on a dime. Use that to your advantage and dodge shots. It's not as hard as it may seem to dodge bullets in ThinkTanks. Use the heavies superior turning abilities to your advantage.
#3
I'm not saying that you can't win fights in a heavy. The heavy is competetive, but it's quite unappealing to me to drive a heavy since it's almost inevitable that every point you score is on your way to eventual death, which is not the case in the light or medium. I think it needs somthing decisive & interesting to make it stand out as a choice. It seems to me that lights and mediums are drive, turn & shoot platforms, and the heavy is just a turn and shoot platform - you lose somthing but don't gain anything, unless you count absorbing damage, which I don't consider a fun point. :)
05/15/2003 (4:27 am)
The heavy may be able to take out the light or medium in a straight duel, but isn't a straight duel just a losing proposition? If the heavy is damaged getting a kill, then it's on the inevitable slide towards being destroyed and losing a point. In a heavy, it's pretty hard to find your way to a health powerup.I'm not saying that you can't win fights in a heavy. The heavy is competetive, but it's quite unappealing to me to drive a heavy since it's almost inevitable that every point you score is on your way to eventual death, which is not the case in the light or medium. I think it needs somthing decisive & interesting to make it stand out as a choice. It seems to me that lights and mediums are drive, turn & shoot platforms, and the heavy is just a turn and shoot platform - you lose somthing but don't gain anything, unless you count absorbing damage, which I don't consider a fun point. :)
#4
I've been playing with the heavy a lot, every time I play practically, just to put these theories of inbalance to the test. I have been getting better at it. As a dualing tank I think it is pretty well balanced, I can go up against Dan in a light, and he will beat me slightly more often than I beat him. I think he is a better player, so this seems reasonable.
But you do have to be more careful in the heavy then the other tanks. Don't wade out into a bunch of enemies, they will all turn on you because you are the heavy. Instead, pick on outliers. People who spawn nearby. Stay on top and side of the hills. Avoid flat terrain. Put rocks between you and your target. Don't get too close to trees; they can block your camera. Try to move about unseen if possible (sides of hills). Always use burst fire, and try to spend the all 3 shots. If you only shoot twice, waste the third shot so that you can get a full burst in next time. Stay stationary if you can and snipe your targets; you won't hit them a lot, but after a while you will hit them a little. Move slightly to avoid incoming fire. If a target flees, you can pursue very briefly - but try to snipe, since you won't be able to catch up. If someone gets away, break off and look for a powerup. Powerups are important. One tactic I use is to rougly move from one powerup area to the next. I don't necessarily go "where the action is".
05/15/2003 (7:00 am)
I find that no matter what tank I use, I take a lot of damage. In any case, you can avoid fire in a heavy under the right circumstances, but yes if you get in a toe to toe battle with any tank, you are going to be hurting afterwards, but you will probably win if you weren't too damaged to begin with.I've been playing with the heavy a lot, every time I play practically, just to put these theories of inbalance to the test. I have been getting better at it. As a dualing tank I think it is pretty well balanced, I can go up against Dan in a light, and he will beat me slightly more often than I beat him. I think he is a better player, so this seems reasonable.
But you do have to be more careful in the heavy then the other tanks. Don't wade out into a bunch of enemies, they will all turn on you because you are the heavy. Instead, pick on outliers. People who spawn nearby. Stay on top and side of the hills. Avoid flat terrain. Put rocks between you and your target. Don't get too close to trees; they can block your camera. Try to move about unseen if possible (sides of hills). Always use burst fire, and try to spend the all 3 shots. If you only shoot twice, waste the third shot so that you can get a full burst in next time. Stay stationary if you can and snipe your targets; you won't hit them a lot, but after a while you will hit them a little. Move slightly to avoid incoming fire. If a target flees, you can pursue very briefly - but try to snipe, since you won't be able to catch up. If someone gets away, break off and look for a powerup. Powerups are important. One tactic I use is to rougly move from one powerup area to the next. I don't necessarily go "where the action is".
#5
The other advantage to a heavy is the damage that the bullets do. If you happen to land one or two bullets in a light, you'll barely scratch paint. In a heavy if you land one or two shots accidentally, that can be the difference between survival and destruction for that tank.
In laggy enviornments the heavy suffers a little, but in a low ping game it can truly be a force to be reckoned with. In fact the only way I can out score a heavy is if I routinely hunt them down. Because then they'll respawn away from the action, and it takes them a while to get back to it. Otherwize a heavy can kill more tanks in a shorter amount of time then a light can
05/15/2003 (8:44 am)
Quigley is quite possibly one of the toughest challenges for me online. Partly because so few people play heavies, so I dont have a lot of strategies and partly because quigs is just so darn good at playing heavy!The other advantage to a heavy is the damage that the bullets do. If you happen to land one or two bullets in a light, you'll barely scratch paint. In a heavy if you land one or two shots accidentally, that can be the difference between survival and destruction for that tank.
In laggy enviornments the heavy suffers a little, but in a low ping game it can truly be a force to be reckoned with. In fact the only way I can out score a heavy is if I routinely hunt them down. Because then they'll respawn away from the action, and it takes them a while to get back to it. Otherwize a heavy can kill more tanks in a shorter amount of time then a light can
#7
05/15/2003 (6:57 pm)
I feel a Best Pilot competition coming on...
#8
05/15/2003 (7:43 pm)
i dont know this quigs (but my eyes are open...), but the points being made about heavies are right on. they may won a one on one hands down, but after that, they're ducks. enterprising light tanks can pick a damaged heavy off like something in their teeth. by the way. what is with the *extremely* lame behaviour in scrum lately? i cant tell if i dislike more the chat kills or the team tending. high on the lame scale.
#9
05/15/2003 (9:03 pm)
Heh. I think I'm overrated :)
#10
the whole time, all he says is "no camping."
next time you hear someone say this, bet money that they're in a fast tank and that they're looking for chasers.
05/15/2003 (9:52 pm)
ill tell you who a tough nut is: Steve Jobs. I drop in at the goal; he says "no camping." then, he beats me by a few while im in the medium, he's in the light. so i switch finally. defeat him, talk a little trash :).the whole time, all he says is "no camping."
next time you hear someone say this, bet money that they're in a fast tank and that they're looking for chasers.
#11
05/16/2003 (5:13 am)
The 'no camping' cry is the last refuge of the unskilled-- they can't figure out how to cope with a goaltender so they bitch and moan instead.
#12
05/16/2003 (1:47 pm)
Some features suggestions.. It would be nice to see when other tanks are chatting, so that you could avoid them if you chose to be curtious. Sort of like in Quake3.. also, I think when you join a game it would be nice to not actually spawn immediatly, so you have a chance to shout out to people in the game.. announce yourself etc. Then press space to spawn etc.
#13
color decals.
i have a very hard time rememberig which i am on, maybe because the aiming device is the same color as one of the teams. what if that could change to match the team color?
license plates...
05/16/2003 (3:44 pm)
Preemptive post for the day when we start playing team scrum and such:color decals.
i have a very hard time rememberig which i am on, maybe because the aiming device is the same color as one of the teams. what if that could change to match the team color?
license plates...
#14
It would also be nice if we had an option to allow human players to replace bots on the same team.
05/17/2003 (9:20 am)
Yes, we definately need some kind of indicator of what team we are on when we spawn in the first time, rather than having to waste time searching out our name on the list.It would also be nice if we had an option to allow human players to replace bots on the same team.
#15
05/17/2003 (10:30 am)
Chris - I think we have both those. When you join, you get a message that says "Welcome Chris, you are on the Green team". Also, when you drop in, you do replace a bot on your team, unless you are the first human on that team, in which case you do not replace the bot.
#16
The second part was basically saying it would be nice to have a "humans" versus bots team play ability when few humans are in a team game. Like a change sides option.
Let me edit my current post.
When I wrote this I was unaware that you could chose your side based on the in game player list before entering the game...
So basically it was my fault for not paying enough attention.
You can disregard my whole previous post... =)
I still want "decals" or other representations of teams and an indicator of your team in case you "forget to check". =)
05/19/2003 (8:27 am)
Your right.. I guess I just haven't payed attention during the start of the game.. too busy checking my radar I guess.The second part was basically saying it would be nice to have a "humans" versus bots team play ability when few humans are in a team game. Like a change sides option.
Let me edit my current post.
When I wrote this I was unaware that you could chose your side based on the in game player list before entering the game...
So basically it was my fault for not paying enough attention.
You can disregard my whole previous post... =)
I still want "decals" or other representations of teams and an indicator of your team in case you "forget to check". =)
#17
Then I repeat my mantra, if perchance I've been assigned to the blue team, i repeat several times in my head "green is bad, green is bad, green is bad" because I invariably forget what team I'm on and end up shooting the wrong color. A strong visual cue as to what team you were on and who your enemy was would be appropriate.
Zoggles, in another thread suggested making the reticules the color of your team. You could also make the "GREEN" or "BLUE" that appears in the welcome message the color of the word. So the word "GREEN" would appear in the same fluorescent green that the dots on the radar appear as.
Some other suggestions. Give tanks decals indicating their team.
Maybe a Blue or Green "X" that looks like it's been splashed on with two strokes of a paintbrush.
Put more indications of team in the HUD, perhaps make the radar background blueish when you are on the blue team. And a stronger green when you are on the green team.
Anyway, I really like this game, the above is just thowing out ideas. I don't paticularly think any one of the ideas is the optimal solution. But maybe some combination? I really think these little refinements add a lot to the game though, eliminating the little elements that cause frustration for the player.
05/22/2003 (1:23 pm)
It's not really you're fault Chris. There's enough text in that first message that it's difficult to pick out the word "Blue" or "Green" (yes even though they are all caps) I still find myself scanning the message to find the word indicating what team I am on. Since Im playing a game, I'm much more accustomed to looking for visual clues as opposed to reading text. This is why I often end up searching the names list to see what team I'm on.Then I repeat my mantra, if perchance I've been assigned to the blue team, i repeat several times in my head "green is bad, green is bad, green is bad" because I invariably forget what team I'm on and end up shooting the wrong color. A strong visual cue as to what team you were on and who your enemy was would be appropriate.
Zoggles, in another thread suggested making the reticules the color of your team. You could also make the "GREEN" or "BLUE" that appears in the welcome message the color of the word. So the word "GREEN" would appear in the same fluorescent green that the dots on the radar appear as.
Some other suggestions. Give tanks decals indicating their team.
Maybe a Blue or Green "X" that looks like it's been splashed on with two strokes of a paintbrush.
Put more indications of team in the HUD, perhaps make the radar background blueish when you are on the blue team. And a stronger green when you are on the green team.
Anyway, I really like this game, the above is just thowing out ideas. I don't paticularly think any one of the ideas is the optimal solution. But maybe some combination? I really think these little refinements add a lot to the game though, eliminating the little elements that cause frustration for the player.
#18
We are listening, so keep throwing out the ideas.
05/22/2003 (4:16 pm)
Yes, keep throwing out the issues and ideas. We want to make sure that any changes we make will fix the problem and not introduce others. We are commited to improving the game, we just want to make sure that when wee do it, we do it right, and that when we make changes, we bundle them all at once so we don't have everyone updating every week and a bunhc of people out of sync.We are listening, so keep throwing out the ideas.
#19
05/22/2003 (6:16 pm)
Is it me, or when you are playing a heavy agaisnt a light can the heavies gun depress far enough? I dont think it can. onetactic for a light might be to get in and start banging and bumping.
#20
1.
my pesos on the color issue: tanks, not the reticle. if the reticle were to change, i think it should be changed to a neutral color, not one that reflects what team you're on. however, because it's not tested, i don't know for sure, but i think this alternating system would confuse
((("my reticle is green, so i shoot the green team, right?")))
better to drop some simple (but easily distinguished) colored marks or full-on skins on the tanks that can easily be distinguished on one's own tank from the rear point of view.
2.
in regard to the text at the initial game entry, text would be devalued if the graphic indicators were stronger. i do the same thing as dan after i drop in, less beningly: " kill green, kill green." stronger visuals will fix these problems.
3.
team mode: i thnk the reason this wasn't incorporated was the added difficulty of programming area awareness into the bots (or maybe not), but i am SERIOUSLY jonesing for more traditional, less fliud team play. throw up 2 fifteen tank wide goals that bookend clever terrain and suddenly, there's a whole new use for heavies.
4.
i was chatting with some cats online the other day. az and mars i think. the convo illuminated the need for a pre-game chat, myth like. developers: don't discount the value of community. even if there's no check in, host-start function, but a 1 or 2 minute countdown timer instead (maybe that is inelegant).
5.
something to mull over: for team play, a ball "release function," so that i can pass the ball without cracking people.
you know who you are. :)
05/22/2003 (6:54 pm)
my thoughts, no particular order1.
my pesos on the color issue: tanks, not the reticle. if the reticle were to change, i think it should be changed to a neutral color, not one that reflects what team you're on. however, because it's not tested, i don't know for sure, but i think this alternating system would confuse
((("my reticle is green, so i shoot the green team, right?")))
better to drop some simple (but easily distinguished) colored marks or full-on skins on the tanks that can easily be distinguished on one's own tank from the rear point of view.
2.
in regard to the text at the initial game entry, text would be devalued if the graphic indicators were stronger. i do the same thing as dan after i drop in, less beningly: " kill green, kill green." stronger visuals will fix these problems.
3.
team mode: i thnk the reason this wasn't incorporated was the added difficulty of programming area awareness into the bots (or maybe not), but i am SERIOUSLY jonesing for more traditional, less fliud team play. throw up 2 fifteen tank wide goals that bookend clever terrain and suddenly, there's a whole new use for heavies.
4.
i was chatting with some cats online the other day. az and mars i think. the convo illuminated the need for a pre-game chat, myth like. developers: don't discount the value of community. even if there's no check in, host-start function, but a 1 or 2 minute countdown timer instead (maybe that is inelegant).
5.
something to mull over: for team play, a ball "release function," so that i can pass the ball without cracking people.
you know who you are. :)
Mike Jahnke
If you want to see a good Heavy pilot, look for jquigs. Try to take him on in a light. Actually, if you see jquigs, everyone rush him.