I feel lost, where to start?

#1 once you own TGB / TGB Pro you have access to the documentation and the tutorials in it.

They should help you quite a bit to learn the things.

The basic structuring (syntax) of the language is pretty trivial and similar to most other languages and understandable from "native spoken language" point of view ( while( this is not true ) do y or if( this is true ) do y, else if it is not true do z and alike).

Learning the function names etc is a matter of time and using the script reference. there is no shortcut on that end :)

#2 You're right - there's really no "how to program" document that teaches programming using TorqueScript. Fortunately, such a document doesn't have to use TorqueScript. The concepts of variables, loops, branching, classes and the like are applicable to many commonly-used languages. Once you're comfortable with those ideas, learning how to express them with TorqueScript (or any particular language) is usually just a simple matter of skimming the reference material.

With that in mind, have a look at this.

#3 John,

Sorry about my site being down before. I've resolved the issue with my host.

The tutorial I created is aimed at the beginner with TGB, it works with the current version and attempts to explain why you are doing what you're doing in both the editor and with the scripts.

Tutorial
Supporting files.

`Patrick

#4 Hey Patrick, thank you for the reply. I will check that out.

And also thanks for the link Sherman, gonna read through it.

Another question is about the buying. I would like to use the 2D version, and then when I got into it and know how to handle everything move on to the iPhone version. Do I need to buy the commercial version with the source code if I want to sell the game on the App Store?

I understood that you can also use the indie version to sell your games (with the iphone version on the app store too) if you are a person funding your own games, not a company. That would be $250 for Torque + $750 for the iPhone license, right? Thats how I understood the EULA.

Whats with the platformer kit? I don't quite get that either. Is it just a template that you could create by yourself, or does it add functions, or is it even official? I did read about it on the page but I'm still not sure. Is it a good way to start or should I rather do things myself?

And would I need to pay for Torque again, when there is an update coming, like the box2d one? Or is it only on major updates?


Thanks for everyone who's helping, although at least one question is probably stupid.

#5 No, you don't need to get the commercial license to sell on the appstore, both licenses work. the commercial one is required if your business does no longer fullfill the requirements to be indie (the eula mentions them).


Also its $250 for TGB Pro + $500 for the iPhone license so $750 in total (if you own the non source TGB already then $650)


platformer kit is an addon you can buy that contains script and basic systems to do platforming games.


And the box2d stuff etc shown is Torque2D, thats the successor of TGB (basically TGB 2.0) and will have an upgrade fee, as it is a major update. TGB won't be getting any feature updates anymore

It makes sense to get TGB because thats what you will work for should you want to go to the iphone, so learning the sources etc will save you time to learn all the stuff again.

#6 Wait what? When I click on the Torque 2D field on the website, it brings me to TGB. If Torque2D is the successor of TGB, and TGB won't be getting any updates anymore, will I be able to upgrade to Torque2D for a lower fee if I bought TGB? If it is basically TGB 2.0, does it have the iPhone thing too? Or is that something entirely different? Why isn't it on the site when you click on Torque 2D?

Where can I find more informations on that? Is it then maybe stupid to buy TGB now if it won't get any updates anymore, and the successor is going to be released soon?

#7 Nothing has been announced about T2D's pricing. But, every update that GG has done in the past has worked the same way - the price of the older version you already own has always been deducted from the price of the version to which you're upgrading.

For example, TGB costs $100 and the regular price of TGB Pro is $250, so an upgrade from TGB to TGB Pro costs $150. Similarly, if you already own TGB or TGB Pro, I'd expect the upgrade to T2D to be the regular price minus $100 or $250, respectively.

#8 Oh alright. When is it expected to come out?

Then I will try to learn it with TGB now and hopefully making iPhone games will be possible with T2D too.

Edit: I just saw that they said on the blog that T2D will be totally different, considering scripts etc. Would it be even smart to learn TGB now if T2D is to be expected soon?

#9

Quote:When is it expected to come out?

GarageGames hasn't yet announced a release date.

#10 Betas aren't starting this year, I'm sure, so an actual release I'd guess…when it's ready :)

All your TorqueScript knowledge will carry over, but tilemaps are out, replaced with something cooler. It'll be a different way to lay out the maps, but you'll be less lost with what stays familiar (Sound, actual TorqueScript, GUIs, I would venture to guess) if you get to know TGB.

#11 On a more philosophical note, programming languages and libraries are always changing. Every year brings something new and/or different from the year before. Being a programmer means committing one's self to a lifetime of continuing education - spending time learning things that will be vastly different (or even totally irrelevant) in a few years time is a fact of programming life.

I don't mean to discourage you by saying this. It's just that, since you're wondering whether you should learn TGB when T2D is expected soon, you may not have realized that there's always something new just around the corner. That being the case, the smart thing is to not let it stop you from learning about what's already here.

#12 Yes I get that, I have no problem with that. The thing I wondered was just if learning TGB now will enable me to continue with T2D right away. I know I always need to educate myself, but if I really try to learn TGB now, and it works totally different with T2D, and I wouldn't be able to use the things I learned now, it would be pretty frustrating.

I know learning things that may be totally irrelevant in the future is a part of being a programmer, but I would like to avoid to do that last minute.


My real question is I guess if, as Ronny said, my Torquescript knowledge will carry over. Another thing that concerns me is the price, I hope it won't be too expensive for me.

#13 I could have sworn the documentation was no longer walled off for only owners of TGB. If you can access this page John, it should show you a bunch of tutorials and documentation which could give you a feel for what the learning curve is like.

www.garagegames.com/documentation/tgb

As for your question if learning TGB now will enable you to continue with T2D right away, I think it is a bit more complex than a simple yes or no answer. From what has been shown so far from T2D, a lot of the basic building blocks will be changing - gone will be things like t2dStaticSprite and instead they will be replaced with the 2D Model system. This means any projects you create in TGB will not automatically carry over into T2D, except your art assets.

Will Torquescript knowledge carry over? I think so. In the world of spoken languages it's not like you'd learn Spanish (TGB) now and then later be told you now need to know German (T2D). I would imagine most of the Torquescript syntax would carry over, you would just have to learn how to refer to the new naming scheme of 2D Model system, etc, in script.

#14

Quote:This means any projects you create in TGB will not automatically carry over into T2D, except your art assets.

I wouldn't recommend upgrading in mid-project anyway. Instead, I'd finish my current project using whatever engine I began it with, then look at upgrading for my next project.

Quote:In the world of spoken languages it's not like you'd learn Spanish (TGB) now and then later be told you now need to know German (T2D).

Agreed. It's more like learning Latin now, then later being told that you need to know modern Italian. Yes, there will be more to learn, and some things to unlearn, but you'll be building on a foundation of what you've already learned, not starting over from scratch.

#15
John, very quickly--there's a better tutorial called Breakout (see below) and a book called 3D Game Programming All In One, 2nd Ed. seems to be the best published reference. This book, however, is really just a lightweight introduction. It's not in enough depth to prepare you to make games for the commercial market.

I'm in a similar position to you--I'm also trying to learn TGB--and I can't recommend the existing documentation as a way to learn much of anything at all. Don't feel stupid or as if you're not trying hard enough; it's a mess, woefully incomplete, and trying to track down any specific piece of information is a snipe hunt. If you're getting frustrated with links to mystery pages, tutorials that start you out but don't really explain what you're doing, and constant hints that there's lots of great documentation somewhere else--it's not just you. As far as I can tell, it never ends. You may be able to learn how to use Torque, eventually, by trial and error and asking questions every time some little question comes up and you can't find the answer documented; but it will take far longer than it should.

You might have noticed that I complained about poor indexing on another thread titled "Official TGB Documentation Feedback" http://www.garagegames.com/community/forums/viewthread/75175 and that the answers were more or less along the same lines: there's lots of great information in some other (unspecified) place. Torque's doc writer, Michael Perry, also tells us that in spite of the thread's title, he doesn't actually want TGB documentation feedback as the company has essentially stopped supporting it already in favor of T2D. Under such circumstances, it's hard to justify wasting too much time learning TGB.

If you've been going through the tutorials as I have, you may have seen that they're full of nifty demos and alluring features but they're only enough to get you started, and it seems you're on your own if you want to do anything in more depth. Basically, you'll know enough to make minor variations on the demos provided. The most interesting and fun of the lot is the "Behavior Playground." The most frustrating is the Checkers demo. It has a server and client--you can start up two game instances on a LAN and have them talk together, which is neat--but it's really not ready for Internet use. Worse, the author, Matt Langley, abandoned the tutorial when the game was about two-thirds done and no one at Garage Games has ever bothered to fix it. Before you painstakingly piece all the code snippets together, as I did, be aware that when you're done the game won't be playable. It can't move kings; doesn't recognize when a game is over, can't restart, you can't reconnect the LAN connection, etc. And you're right that the explanation of why things were done in a certain way is very lacking.

There's what appears to be a much better tutorial called Breakout, with a link at at http://www.garagegames.com/community/forums/viewthread/73649. I haven't finished it, however, so I can't say if the end is as good as the beginning. I also can't say if it's still relevant; from the thread comments it appears that the tutorial is over a year and a half old and I have no idea how much of what it covers is obsolete.

If you need an explanation of basic programming along with your Torque lessons, there's a book called 3D Game Programming All In One, 2nd Ed. that uses Torque. Unfortunately, it's at too basic a level as the programming lessons are targeted at someone who's never even heard of the C language. If you don't know such programming basics as what is a variable and what is a comment, you're going to need a couple of years of college to bring you up to speed; if you're already a programmer, it will seem like kid stuff.

#16 Well I do have programming experience with this and that, but nothing like these things.

So I do know what variables are, global variables and so on. Since you say you feel similar, what are you doing to get a hang of things?

And yeah, it is not like I have a project now. I am still trying to figure things out.

#17

Quote:there's lots of great information in some other (unspecified) place

. I never said this. I've organized the best of what's available in the TGB Documentation landing, which contains links to the Official Docs, helpful forums, and good TDN tutorials.

Quote:...in spite of the thread's title, he doesn't actually want TGB documentation feedback...

Not entirely true. Any and all feedback in that thread will go toward Torque 2D, but currently there are not enough hands to write for Torque 3D, Torque 2D, and the older engines.

Quote:but they're only enough to get you started, and it seems you're on your own if you want to do anything in more depth.

While I agree there is always a need for new docs, for all engines, that's a pretty good place to end up. The documentation and demos get you started. Anything more in depth than that is basically you making your game, which is not the intention of the docs.

Now, both Torque 3D and Torque 2D will have superior documentation and tutorials...and I honestly want everyone to move over to those engines. As someone mentioned earlier, the cost of TGB will go toward a Torque 2D upgrade. A decent amount of design concepts from TGB will carry over, but the engine is being completely revamped to be more powerful, easier to use, more advanced, and present a whole new level of usability.

Does that mean TGB is worthless? Absolutely not. If you are new to game development and want to make a 2D game, TGB is more than capable. Anything you learn about 2D development will carry over to Torque 2D.

#18 Thanks for that. Yes I definitely plan on using Torque2D, be it through an upgrade or through starting with it.

The only thing I worry about is the price. I won't be able to put $1000 dollar into it.

And what you said is helpful I think. So knowing Torquescript from TGB will help me in Torque2D? Or is it just the basics that are the same, as if I learn C++ now or something?

#19 @John - We haven't made a final decision on price yet, but so far no one has mentioned a price tag that high.

In regard to whether knowing TorqueScript from TGB will help with Torque 2D, yes. Learning it now will help, just as learning C++ will help with the basic concepts. There are details I can't reveal yet, though, so I do not want to mislead anyone.

#20 Okay thank you.

And you can confirm that buying TGB now will give me the price of it as a discount when upgrading to Torque2D?

And will the iPhone pack still work, or are there plans to support iPhone development with T2D?