3D engine indie license (where? How?)
by Creature · in Torque Game Engine · 11/24/2009 (8:28 pm) · 6 replies
Hi!
I became interested in Torque 3D game engine because I found out (from several sources: ED Game Programming All in One Second Edition by Kenneth C. Finney, Tourque Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque_Game_Engine#Licensing), and this thread: http://www.devmaster.net/engines/engine_details.php?id=3 ) that the indie license costs around $100 per programmer. Is this still the case? If so, where/how can I get it? On this website I can only find one link for the 3D game engine and it lists $1000 as the price. Did the indie option get discontinued or did it jump in price X 10? If not, where do I get it? I've browsed around this site and for the life of me can't find anything but an old thread w/ dead links regarding the indie license. Maybe I'm just not looking right...
Thanks.
Creature
I became interested in Torque 3D game engine because I found out (from several sources: ED Game Programming All in One Second Edition by Kenneth C. Finney, Tourque Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque_Game_Engine#Licensing), and this thread: http://www.devmaster.net/engines/engine_details.php?id=3 ) that the indie license costs around $100 per programmer. Is this still the case? If so, where/how can I get it? On this website I can only find one link for the 3D game engine and it lists $1000 as the price. Did the indie option get discontinued or did it jump in price X 10? If not, where do I get it? I've browsed around this site and for the life of me can't find anything but an old thread w/ dead links regarding the indie license. Maybe I'm just not looking right...
Thanks.
Creature
#2
(I'm afraid the book says nothing about it, and if I break the seal on the CD to look for a license I won't be able to take the book back to the store, which is what I'll have to do if I can't legally use this software w/o paying $1000)
11/24/2009 (9:00 pm)
Interesting. Thanks for the replay. Small question: I just recently bought that book 3D Game Programming All in One Second Edition by Kenneth C. Finney and it included TGE 1.4. Would it still me legal for me to distribute (whether for free or $) games I make with it? (I'm afraid the book says nothing about it, and if I break the seal on the CD to look for a license I won't be able to take the book back to the store, which is what I'll have to do if I can't legally use this software w/o paying $1000)
#3
Also, as I suggested in the other thread, you should read that thread I linked you again.
11/24/2009 (11:50 pm)
It's been a long time since I've looked at that book so I can't say with 100% certainty. The version of the engine provided with Ken's book was a special build. You definitely can't distribute anything you make with it for money. I'll have to check the copy I've got at the office in the morning for anything past that.Also, as I suggested in the other thread, you should read that thread I linked you again.
#4
I've decided to take the book back, while I'm still able and go with the jMonkey engine for now. From my position right now it seems like the most logical choice. When I decided to use Torque and bought the book there are 3 things that made me choose it:
1) it was affordable
2) Was used for professional games in the past. Being familiar with it may help me get a job in the industry because of that.
3) Could be used on Windows, Mac, and Linux.
The only drawback I saw is the Torque script. With an engine like Crystal Space, for example, I'll have to learn C++. Even if I decide not to use Crystal Space in the future, having learned C++ will help me in my career. As far as I understand Torque script is specific to Torque. But the above 3 listed things won out.
Here's why I'm deciding to switch:
1) I can no longer trust that the engine will remain affordable. Yes, the thread you linked me to says that you can still buy the old version by contacting the licensing department directly. For how long, though? The company has already made the decision to not sell the older affordable versions in the store, it may choose to not sell them at all in the future. I'm not saying that's bad or anything, I'm just saying that I personally may have to switch to another engine after having invested time learning this one for no other reason then this one.
2) With factor #1 out of the way, factor #2 looses it's appeal. Down the road my resume can say "I am proficient in Torque script used in a really really old version of a commercial and well known engine." or it can say "proficient in the latest and greatest features of a widely-used programming language" 50-50 there.
3) still a factor.
So I've decided to go with jMonkey engine for the following reasons.
1) It's affordable (free), and I trust it to stay that way.
2) Uses a real-world programming language.
3) Uses a language that I already know.
4) Cross-platform ('cause it's Java and Java's just that awesome ^_^ ).
The last two points is why I chose it over Crystal Space. Crystal space's 2 good points are:
1) Opportunity to learn a widely-used programming language I don't know well.
2) C++ is potentially faster then Java (though from what I hear now-days that may not always be true)
The actual features of the game engines didn't factor in as much to my calculation for the simple reason that I am an "army of one" flavor of indie developer. I can't compete with professional company made games. Stuff like super-accurate shadows and reflections, and absolutely life-like physics don't matter as much. When people download my game, they'll know it's an indie game made by one person on a budget of $0, so I'm sure they'll forgive me if it's not as awesome as the FFXIII. I can make due with the most basic features.
It's still cool that you guys are improving Torque and making it affordable for game companies. The in-browser stuff sounds really cool ^_^ Rock on!
11/25/2009 (3:19 pm)
I did read through it, Scott, thanks. :)I've decided to take the book back, while I'm still able and go with the jMonkey engine for now. From my position right now it seems like the most logical choice. When I decided to use Torque and bought the book there are 3 things that made me choose it:
1) it was affordable
2) Was used for professional games in the past. Being familiar with it may help me get a job in the industry because of that.
3) Could be used on Windows, Mac, and Linux.
The only drawback I saw is the Torque script. With an engine like Crystal Space, for example, I'll have to learn C++. Even if I decide not to use Crystal Space in the future, having learned C++ will help me in my career. As far as I understand Torque script is specific to Torque. But the above 3 listed things won out.
Here's why I'm deciding to switch:
1) I can no longer trust that the engine will remain affordable. Yes, the thread you linked me to says that you can still buy the old version by contacting the licensing department directly. For how long, though? The company has already made the decision to not sell the older affordable versions in the store, it may choose to not sell them at all in the future. I'm not saying that's bad or anything, I'm just saying that I personally may have to switch to another engine after having invested time learning this one for no other reason then this one.
2) With factor #1 out of the way, factor #2 looses it's appeal. Down the road my resume can say "I am proficient in Torque script used in a really really old version of a commercial and well known engine." or it can say "proficient in the latest and greatest features of a widely-used programming language" 50-50 there.
3) still a factor.
So I've decided to go with jMonkey engine for the following reasons.
1) It's affordable (free), and I trust it to stay that way.
2) Uses a real-world programming language.
3) Uses a language that I already know.
4) Cross-platform ('cause it's Java and Java's just that awesome ^_^ ).
The last two points is why I chose it over Crystal Space. Crystal space's 2 good points are:
1) Opportunity to learn a widely-used programming language I don't know well.
2) C++ is potentially faster then Java (though from what I hear now-days that may not always be true)
The actual features of the game engines didn't factor in as much to my calculation for the simple reason that I am an "army of one" flavor of indie developer. I can't compete with professional company made games. Stuff like super-accurate shadows and reflections, and absolutely life-like physics don't matter as much. When people download my game, they'll know it's an indie game made by one person on a budget of $0, so I'm sure they'll forgive me if it's not as awesome as the FFXIII. I can make due with the most basic features.
It's still cool that you guys are improving Torque and making it affordable for game companies. The in-browser stuff sounds really cool ^_^ Rock on!
#5
As far as the engines go, TGE was solid, but is outdated, TGEA I never wanted to upgrade to until recently, it's had a bumpy past.
T3D looks amazing though, and yes the price tag does turn a lot of people away. It seems that GG is moving away from the indie developer and focusing more on the indie company. Which does hurt people like you and me, who don't have a budget. I've been playing around with the demo and keeping an eye on the features, they're getting it closer to being worth the money it costs, they've still got a way to go though.
JMonkey looks pretty good, and if that suits your needs it'd be a decent place to start. I will point one thing out to you about Torque though, and that is it's amazing networking/multiplayer abilities, I don't think there is an equal out there.
They're supposidly making an announcement on Black Friday, unless they changed their minds, about a possible binary version being released for a cheaper price or perhaps even free, we'll have to wait and see.
But yea, use what fits your needs.
11/25/2009 (4:33 pm)
Good points creature, and yea how long is a good question. I contacted em two weeks ago and they told me to recontact them after this friday to see about upgrading to TGEA. Guess they're still working out some pricing schemes. But yea who knows for how long.As far as the engines go, TGE was solid, but is outdated, TGEA I never wanted to upgrade to until recently, it's had a bumpy past.
T3D looks amazing though, and yes the price tag does turn a lot of people away. It seems that GG is moving away from the indie developer and focusing more on the indie company. Which does hurt people like you and me, who don't have a budget. I've been playing around with the demo and keeping an eye on the features, they're getting it closer to being worth the money it costs, they've still got a way to go though.
JMonkey looks pretty good, and if that suits your needs it'd be a decent place to start. I will point one thing out to you about Torque though, and that is it's amazing networking/multiplayer abilities, I don't think there is an equal out there.
They're supposidly making an announcement on Black Friday, unless they changed their minds, about a possible binary version being released for a cheaper price or perhaps even free, we'll have to wait and see.
But yea, use what fits your needs.
#6
Not trying to change your mind - you have sound reasons. Just pointing that out :).
11/25/2009 (5:14 pm)
Quote:The only drawback I saw is the Torque script. With an engine like Crystal Space, for example, I'll have to learn C++. Even if I decide not to use Crystal Space in the future, having learned C++ will help me in my career. As far as I understand Torque script is specific to Torque.For the record, Torque is written in C++. The scripts (the bits written in TorqueScript), are used to manipulate and control the under-the-hood engine code. In my time working with Torque, I've worked with far more C++ than TS, and in the process have learned everything I know about C++.
Not trying to change your mind - you have sound reasons. Just pointing that out :).
Associate Scott Burns
GG Alumni