My Insight to the T3D Situation
by Robert Sutton · in Torque 3D Beginner · 09/18/2009 (2:11 pm) · 79 replies
I know that alot of peopel have already spoke on or about the price of t3d and what ever, but I would like to make a few points clear as IO just cant hold back my thoughts anymore. I already bought tgea and tge which WERE NOT EVEN BUG FREE OR HAD PROPER DOCUMENTATION, but still none the less great engines !! Dont get me wrong on that fact, I love using them and having them thanks to GG ..but.. both are going to be crap by them not being updated..waste of money... GG needs to do something about their price... They are just going to be like any other game engine company after awhile it looks like.... Get ready indies... we will soon be screwed I think.
heres the scenerio as I see it..
GG: Oh its pricy yes.. but look at all the features...
Me: Who cares all it is, is TGEA with more stuff in the engine added for better effects...
GG: No we have redone everything
Me: Why if TGEA was great, are you calling it crap?
GG: No TGEA is a fully functional engine which we are proud of.
Me: Then why didnt you just update the source and add in the extra effects you coded in and just call it an update?
MY THOGUHT: instead of the regular price which would be 3x as low as we know we can get outa you people. so it jumped it up 3x as much concidering though already bought tgea... a chunk full of you people can afford t3d.
IF You even cut your price down by half, you would get more people to buy it in the long run, but I dont think your thinking of that because the updates form what weve seen so far from the other engines we the customer have done ourselves. Can we expect the same form this engine? if not... then why couldnt you give the full support during the last engine products, but can now?
Me: So your not sticking with the statement of you guys caring about the individual indie... So by the way that you have rolled out with tge and tgea in your production, was the lower price the reason because you used them as a beta product until you came out with better knowing you would at least have a bit of a community then? Just like we do when we make our games?
Im sorry if my opinion is one sided and may only speak for myself, but I do find it horrible the way that T3D was rolled out. I dont care if there was 50 people working on the project of t3d, we didnt ask for that or ask for you to quit giving us updates on a product that we paid for already. Pretty soon Unreal is going to have a bigger base of customers I think because the price of the next engine after t3d will be a couple grand... might as well go all out after that eh? Im sorry, im just not happy with this whole thing. Well lets all dig into our pockets once again, it wont be the last time cause if you have not noticed with the trend... the prices keep going up and up, just wait till they are 2000 for T3DA Torque 3d Advanced.... yes thats a joke but I could see it.
I just feel as though TGE and TGEA were being used as beta versions. Lack of documentation, lack of this and that. Though people may say it was all over the forums.... yes but by who? us.
So... heres another question, why can t3d not be just a update to TGEA? I mean, you see in the package of 1.8.1 of TGEA that it gives you a T3D demo... REAAALY. lets just go inside of that source and see how much has changed. In other words. new graphic codings and a few new tools. ... Is this not the same type of what TGEA was when you released it? This is just like the TGE then got upgraded to tgea type thing and price jumped alittle. The code in t3d is not fully "brand new". obviously. So when does the price raises stop? I cant wait to see T3DAdvanced price when it rolls out. And it will not stop then.
Im sorry, I just cant make any sense out of this whole situation.
GG You really should reconsider the price for T3D compared to who has already bought the tge and tgea along with the "tools and addons" for each, considering they are garbage unless we update them ourselves.
I will be buying t3d though from what ive said, so please take note im just in surprise to business practices in which the company has gone about this. Which it should of been half the price you are selling it for if you want to be fair to the indie like your company statements say.
Anyways, just some of my thoughts.. ahh I can breath again lol.
Sorry GG, I love the products and love my team using such, just dont become like the other engine companies and go back on your word to the indie. This is the only engine place alot of us look up to. You inspire and motivate even a hobbist, just be sure your on the right path and not going off like it seems.
heres the scenerio as I see it..
GG: Oh its pricy yes.. but look at all the features...
Me: Who cares all it is, is TGEA with more stuff in the engine added for better effects...
GG: No we have redone everything
Me: Why if TGEA was great, are you calling it crap?
GG: No TGEA is a fully functional engine which we are proud of.
Me: Then why didnt you just update the source and add in the extra effects you coded in and just call it an update?
MY THOGUHT: instead of the regular price which would be 3x as low as we know we can get outa you people. so it jumped it up 3x as much concidering though already bought tgea... a chunk full of you people can afford t3d.
IF You even cut your price down by half, you would get more people to buy it in the long run, but I dont think your thinking of that because the updates form what weve seen so far from the other engines we the customer have done ourselves. Can we expect the same form this engine? if not... then why couldnt you give the full support during the last engine products, but can now?
Me: So your not sticking with the statement of you guys caring about the individual indie... So by the way that you have rolled out with tge and tgea in your production, was the lower price the reason because you used them as a beta product until you came out with better knowing you would at least have a bit of a community then? Just like we do when we make our games?
Im sorry if my opinion is one sided and may only speak for myself, but I do find it horrible the way that T3D was rolled out. I dont care if there was 50 people working on the project of t3d, we didnt ask for that or ask for you to quit giving us updates on a product that we paid for already. Pretty soon Unreal is going to have a bigger base of customers I think because the price of the next engine after t3d will be a couple grand... might as well go all out after that eh? Im sorry, im just not happy with this whole thing. Well lets all dig into our pockets once again, it wont be the last time cause if you have not noticed with the trend... the prices keep going up and up, just wait till they are 2000 for T3DA Torque 3d Advanced.... yes thats a joke but I could see it.
I just feel as though TGE and TGEA were being used as beta versions. Lack of documentation, lack of this and that. Though people may say it was all over the forums.... yes but by who? us.
So... heres another question, why can t3d not be just a update to TGEA? I mean, you see in the package of 1.8.1 of TGEA that it gives you a T3D demo... REAAALY. lets just go inside of that source and see how much has changed. In other words. new graphic codings and a few new tools. ... Is this not the same type of what TGEA was when you released it? This is just like the TGE then got upgraded to tgea type thing and price jumped alittle. The code in t3d is not fully "brand new". obviously. So when does the price raises stop? I cant wait to see T3DAdvanced price when it rolls out. And it will not stop then.
Im sorry, I just cant make any sense out of this whole situation.
GG You really should reconsider the price for T3D compared to who has already bought the tge and tgea along with the "tools and addons" for each, considering they are garbage unless we update them ourselves.
I will be buying t3d though from what ive said, so please take note im just in surprise to business practices in which the company has gone about this. Which it should of been half the price you are selling it for if you want to be fair to the indie like your company statements say.
Anyways, just some of my thoughts.. ahh I can breath again lol.
Sorry GG, I love the products and love my team using such, just dont become like the other engine companies and go back on your word to the indie. This is the only engine place alot of us look up to. You inspire and motivate even a hobbist, just be sure your on the right path and not going off like it seems.
About the author
Thread is locked
#62
So if your friend tell you that you can buy his car for price X but when you get over there he tells you that he will only sell it to you for price X*4, you will not feel disappointed (ripped off)?
I'm sure you will bee quite upset!
My point here is not the 1000$, the point here is that they said there would be a 300$ (-ish) price for a basic version and now they decided to not release a basic version. I have made certain decisions and a road map based on that information.
The question is if you ever can trust anything GG tells you?
09/30/2009 (12:07 pm)
@Andrew BradyQuote:How exactly.. does one feel "ripped off" by a company that the person has never done business with.. ever?
So if your friend tell you that you can buy his car for price X but when you get over there he tells you that he will only sell it to you for price X*4, you will not feel disappointed (ripped off)?
I'm sure you will bee quite upset!
My point here is not the 1000$, the point here is that they said there would be a 300$ (-ish) price for a basic version and now they decided to not release a basic version. I have made certain decisions and a road map based on that information.
The question is if you ever can trust anything GG tells you?
#63
For me.. yes. As long as you understand they are not your friend to begin with, at least as far as users leveraging friendship to alter one's expectations of their business strategy.
It's a false premise. Since I started here sometime in 06, there have been afew things that I have taken issue with. But even I was not under the impression that anything to do with a basic version was ever set in stone.
I'm sorry you feel cheated, but I do not see how GG contributed to this feeling unless you factor in their choices do not coincide with your personal wishes. And besides.. I do not think they are finished making adjustments to T3D as well as various older tech yet, but that's just my opinion.
09/30/2009 (12:50 pm)
Quote:The question is if you ever can trust anything GG tells you?
For me.. yes. As long as you understand they are not your friend to begin with, at least as far as users leveraging friendship to alter one's expectations of their business strategy.
Quote:So if your friend tell you that you can buy his car for price X but when you get over there he tells you that he will only sell it to you for price X*4, you will not feel disappointed (ripped off)?
It's a false premise. Since I started here sometime in 06, there have been afew things that I have taken issue with. But even I was not under the impression that anything to do with a basic version was ever set in stone.
I'm sorry you feel cheated, but I do not see how GG contributed to this feeling unless you factor in their choices do not coincide with your personal wishes. And besides.. I do not think they are finished making adjustments to T3D as well as various older tech yet, but that's just my opinion.
#64
sorry if i don't clear it out,what i meant is,why separating purelight and verve from the main Torque3d?is it because made by different company,why GG just don't buy the product completely and implement by default on T3D?Or GG starting like i assumed before modular business model?just like cinema 4d for example.
How about the performance?in compare with unity?i heard from their forum,T3D has slowdown in fps compare with them,and about the ease of use?workflow?does the new T3D gui somewhat near like unity3d(drag and drop script material,etc).For feature,how a customer evaluate if GG didn't put demo for it's feature?my main attention is the web publishing,how is it works?firefox by xpi addon?IE by activex?how about opera?chrome?
Ofcourse i don't understand completely for what T3D will offer,i just heard about probable bias review by other forum,slow,just polished TGEA with new gui,poor documentation,bla bla,i pulled the true first cross platform entitled to unity3d only from my customer POV and testing their all over demo available on their resources,afaik it's been quite mature and less problem,what i know is as in software development process,most new product will give customer the headache on figure out how to make it works if there is a special problems,if on the mature product atleast i can depend on answer either from the forum or support itself,because it's already being on the long run,as for the reason,it's already tested,with single click,voila,3 kind of binary.
But there is main downside from unity3d for it's non-native(mono) compiled binary,which i must give thumbs up on T3D.For now i still deciding,the main downside of torque as my past experience on TGEA is the learning cycle,it's really takes time :(.
10/02/2009 (7:26 pm)
@Blakesorry if i don't clear it out,what i meant is,why separating purelight and verve from the main Torque3d?is it because made by different company,why GG just don't buy the product completely and implement by default on T3D?Or GG starting like i assumed before modular business model?just like cinema 4d for example.
How about the performance?in compare with unity?i heard from their forum,T3D has slowdown in fps compare with them,and about the ease of use?workflow?does the new T3D gui somewhat near like unity3d(drag and drop script material,etc).For feature,how a customer evaluate if GG didn't put demo for it's feature?my main attention is the web publishing,how is it works?firefox by xpi addon?IE by activex?how about opera?chrome?
Ofcourse i don't understand completely for what T3D will offer,i just heard about probable bias review by other forum,slow,just polished TGEA with new gui,poor documentation,bla bla,i pulled the true first cross platform entitled to unity3d only from my customer POV and testing their all over demo available on their resources,afaik it's been quite mature and less problem,what i know is as in software development process,most new product will give customer the headache on figure out how to make it works if there is a special problems,if on the mature product atleast i can depend on answer either from the forum or support itself,because it's already being on the long run,as for the reason,it's already tested,with single click,voila,3 kind of binary.
But there is main downside from unity3d for it's non-native(mono) compiled binary,which i must give thumbs up on T3D.For now i still deciding,the main downside of torque as my past experience on TGEA is the learning cycle,it's really takes time :(.
#65
I've honestly never understood why people assume we have bucketloads of money sitting around to buy every single addon that people make for Torque and that even if we were interesting in buying them, that everyone who has made an addon is willing to sell it to us.
10/02/2009 (7:32 pm)
Quote:
why separating purelight and verve from the main Torque3d?is it because made by different company,why GG just don't buy the product completely and implement by default on T3D?
I've honestly never understood why people assume we have bucketloads of money sitting around to buy every single addon that people make for Torque and that even if we were interesting in buying them, that everyone who has made an addon is willing to sell it to us.
#66
Torque 3D maay have started out as tgea, but it quickly went FAR beyond what tgea could have dreamed of being. (not to mention all the rewritten code)
GG was actually smart to make it a paid upgrade. It is, in Fact, a new engine and 100% better than tgea was. (I still dabble with tge for it's simpleness tho)
10/02/2009 (10:14 pm)
Quote:You don't??? Darn and here I was writing this killer make my game button for GG to buy for mega bucks. (just kidding with you here)
I've honestly never understood why people assume we have bucketloads of money sitting around to buy every single addon that people make for Torque
Quote:sorry if i don't clear it out,what i meant is,why separating purelight and verve from the main Torque3d?is it because made by different company,why GG just don't buy the product completely and implement by default on T3D?Or GG starting like i assumed before modular business model?just like cinema 4d for exampleGG can only buy what people want to sell them. Plus, if GG were to buy those apps, how much more do you think Torque 3D would be? They have to pay back the bank somehow. They would turn out to be overbloat for a generic engine. (generic as in you can make just about any type of game you can dream of with it)
Torque 3D maay have started out as tgea, but it quickly went FAR beyond what tgea could have dreamed of being. (not to mention all the rewritten code)
GG was actually smart to make it a paid upgrade. It is, in Fact, a new engine and 100% better than tgea was. (I still dabble with tge for it's simpleness tho)
#67
10/02/2009 (10:31 pm)
::hands out ulcer medication::
#68
"I'm evaluating the TGB to get a feel and understanding of the Torque concept. I can only agree that the product is too buggy and should have gone one or two more spins in the debug phase before it was released.
The documentation is a joke as they state "full documentation". I was actually searching for the "full documentation" for 4 days before I realized that the list of function names WAS the "full documentation".
In many case you end up with a broken link or:
"You've followed a link to a page that doesn't exist yet. To create the page, start typing in the box below (see the help page for more info). If you are here by mistake, just click your browser's back button."
After browsing around in the forums I understand that this has always been an issue with GG's products.
Before The T3D was released we could read that there would be an "indie" license available containing (the 7 first bullets if you didn't change that too):
- Advanced Physics
- Collada Content Pipeline
- Material Editor
- Unified Terrain System
- Datablock Editor
- Decal Editor
- Allows for Non-game Projects
I don't exactly remember the price, but it was around 300$ and affordable considering that you only got a third of the feature list and the history of releasing buggy products and incomplete documentation.
With buggy products I don't mean 100% bug free, but at least you should not have to find GUI bugs the first day you use the product.
I'm now very skeptical to GG as a company because it seems that they can suddenly change strategy. What will guarantee that GG don't do this again, and again...
What makes me most disappointed is that GG first say one thing and then they do another...
You should also keep in mind that the world is bigger than America and there are other countries not using USD. For a developer in east Europe 1000$ can be several month of salary.
You are several times coming back to the fact that some other hobbyists are spending more than 1000$ on their hobbies, but the people with this amount of money are probably those who can afford your 1000$ license.
I have spent way over 1000$ on other hobbies but not all at once. It has been a few 100$ here and there over the time. By having the entry level at 1000$, you need to have 1000$ available upfront before you even can look at it.
You (GG) are also coming back to that TGE and TGEA are still there for a low price, you just forgot to mention that you will stop selling them from the 1 of November 2009. I found this information in one of your developer (Brett Seyler) blogs by coincident.
www.garagegames.com/community/blogs/view/18393
It is also a bit tricky to find the links to actually buy TGE and TGEA because they are only referenced in the description of T3D and iPhone!?!.
TGEA: www.garagegames.com/products/torque-3d/tgea
TGE: www.garagegames.com/products/tge
As I understand the next release of TGB will be as T2D. How can I trust that you don't increase that price to 1000$ too?
When TGE and TGEA disappear from the 1 of November there will not be any low-price level to start from. The entrance fee will start at 1000$ and climb up.
I'm just very disappointed and feel ripped off even before I bought any product from GG."/
NOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS A REPLY WILL BE MADE BY SOMEONE WHO ONLY QUOTES ONE THING OUT OF THAT WHOLE POST TO TRY TO AGRESS. Get real.
10/04/2009 (8:00 am)
Im still waiting for someone to get back to Max's post, as no one has even responded to the post with any sort of brains or thought behind the words."I'm evaluating the TGB to get a feel and understanding of the Torque concept. I can only agree that the product is too buggy and should have gone one or two more spins in the debug phase before it was released.
The documentation is a joke as they state "full documentation". I was actually searching for the "full documentation" for 4 days before I realized that the list of function names WAS the "full documentation".
In many case you end up with a broken link or:
"You've followed a link to a page that doesn't exist yet. To create the page, start typing in the box below (see the help page for more info). If you are here by mistake, just click your browser's back button."
After browsing around in the forums I understand that this has always been an issue with GG's products.
Before The T3D was released we could read that there would be an "indie" license available containing (the 7 first bullets if you didn't change that too):
- Advanced Physics
- Collada Content Pipeline
- Material Editor
- Unified Terrain System
- Datablock Editor
- Decal Editor
- Allows for Non-game Projects
I don't exactly remember the price, but it was around 300$ and affordable considering that you only got a third of the feature list and the history of releasing buggy products and incomplete documentation.
With buggy products I don't mean 100% bug free, but at least you should not have to find GUI bugs the first day you use the product.
I'm now very skeptical to GG as a company because it seems that they can suddenly change strategy. What will guarantee that GG don't do this again, and again...
What makes me most disappointed is that GG first say one thing and then they do another...
You should also keep in mind that the world is bigger than America and there are other countries not using USD. For a developer in east Europe 1000$ can be several month of salary.
You are several times coming back to the fact that some other hobbyists are spending more than 1000$ on their hobbies, but the people with this amount of money are probably those who can afford your 1000$ license.
I have spent way over 1000$ on other hobbies but not all at once. It has been a few 100$ here and there over the time. By having the entry level at 1000$, you need to have 1000$ available upfront before you even can look at it.
You (GG) are also coming back to that TGE and TGEA are still there for a low price, you just forgot to mention that you will stop selling them from the 1 of November 2009. I found this information in one of your developer (Brett Seyler) blogs by coincident.
www.garagegames.com/community/blogs/view/18393
It is also a bit tricky to find the links to actually buy TGE and TGEA because they are only referenced in the description of T3D and iPhone!?!.
TGEA: www.garagegames.com/products/torque-3d/tgea
TGE: www.garagegames.com/products/tge
As I understand the next release of TGB will be as T2D. How can I trust that you don't increase that price to 1000$ too?
When TGE and TGEA disappear from the 1 of November there will not be any low-price level to start from. The entrance fee will start at 1000$ and climb up.
I'm just very disappointed and feel ripped off even before I bought any product from GG."/
NOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS A REPLY WILL BE MADE BY SOMEONE WHO ONLY QUOTES ONE THING OUT OF THAT WHOLE POST TO TRY TO AGRESS. Get real.
#69
They have. They are looking at an "artist" version which would be fully featured, but binary only, with a price of $500.00.
They will. That's just buisness. You attempt to go a certain way, when that doesn't look like it's going to work, you try something different.
I would be willing to almost bet the artist version changes in some small way. Be it price, or name.
That's just the way the world works. It doesn't matter if you or I can afford it or not.
had a heart attack when I told her what T3D would cost. (sorry dear, you know those hair appointments....... you can keep them. I'll give up some other thing)
The thing is, once GG finds their comfort zone, things will level off and everyone will know what the prices are, and which engine to choose
as an introductory engine.
Was that real enough for you?? :-)
10/04/2009 (10:09 am)
Quote:Before The T3D was released we could read that there would be an "indie" license available containing (the 7 first bullets if you didn't change that too):
They have. They are looking at an "artist" version which would be fully featured, but binary only, with a price of $500.00.
Quote:I'm now very skeptical to GG as a company because it seems that they can suddenly change strategy. What will guarantee that GG don't do this again, and again...
They will. That's just buisness. You attempt to go a certain way, when that doesn't look like it's going to work, you try something different.
I would be willing to almost bet the artist version changes in some small way. Be it price, or name.
Quote:As I understand the next release of TGB will be as T2D. How can I trust that you don't increase that price to 1000$ too?You can't. GG will set the price at a point where they make money, and the market will bear it. If the company can't make money, they can't stay in buisness.
That's just the way the world works. It doesn't matter if you or I can afford it or not.
Quote:When TGE and TGEA disappear from the 1 of November there will not be any low-price level to start from. The entrance fee will start at 1000$ and climb upThey have stated several times that T2D will be their low price engine. (I think even in this thread)
Quote:I'm just very disappointed and feel ripped off even before I bought any product from GG."/I can understand your frustration. It's frustrating to want the best, but not afford it. Trust me, I'm not a rich man and my wife almost
had a heart attack when I told her what T3D would cost. (sorry dear, you know those hair appointments....... you can keep them. I'll give up some other thing)
The thing is, once GG finds their comfort zone, things will level off and everyone will know what the prices are, and which engine to choose
as an introductory engine.
Quote:NOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS A REPLY WILL BE MADE BY SOMEONE WHO ONLY QUOTES ONE THING OUT OF THAT WHOLE POST TO TRY TO AGRESS. Get real.
Was that real enough for you?? :-)
#70
Now heres my next questions:
How do we incorporate MYSQL ?
How do we do login system?
How do we connect php
How do we inventory control
Blah Blah, Notice all these resources were available from TGE. Once t3d has these resources.... GG will release a new engine and disable T3D...
Practically thats what they have done here.
We built up an engine for greatness. and they destroyed all the hard work put in by others by not even offering service anymore to it. Well, ya sure lets start over and over and over and over. Keep discontinueing the services every time our community actually builds on a product that can actually be used to make a game.
Time vs Development vs GG = Nothing except start over.
I SWARE TO GOD, I Hope GG Doesnt delete the TGE and TGEA Resources and Forums which years and years of information have been piled into. if so, can we say Dumb move?
Considering all the old school engine builders have practically left which were the ones who offered us alot of the tutorials.
Dreamer, Af, Tony, Dan, and god knows... many others.
10/04/2009 (10:23 am)
YA :)Now heres my next questions:
How do we incorporate MYSQL ?
How do we do login system?
How do we connect php
How do we inventory control
Blah Blah, Notice all these resources were available from TGE. Once t3d has these resources.... GG will release a new engine and disable T3D...
Practically thats what they have done here.
We built up an engine for greatness. and they destroyed all the hard work put in by others by not even offering service anymore to it. Well, ya sure lets start over and over and over and over. Keep discontinueing the services every time our community actually builds on a product that can actually be used to make a game.
Time vs Development vs GG = Nothing except start over.
I SWARE TO GOD, I Hope GG Doesnt delete the TGE and TGEA Resources and Forums which years and years of information have been piled into. if so, can we say Dumb move?
Considering all the old school engine builders have practically left which were the ones who offered us alot of the tutorials.
Dreamer, Af, Tony, Dan, and god knows... many others.
#71
The Community is upheld by many upstanding people: old ones still around, some that are new, and it will continue with those yet to come. When you actually take part in it, you just may be taken a little bit more seriously.
Constructive criticism, bug reports, honest problems, seeking of advice or help, questions, attempting to learn, are always welcome. Ignorance and whining are the symptoms of either a child, a troll, someone fomenting discord, or someone blaming others for their own failures. Some people should and sit and think for a moment though before they hit that "Post" button -- because they damn sure don't engender any community goodwill from some of us!
EDIT: and yes, I did in fact ignore your questions above -- other than to say it was possible... and it should be obvious as to why. Some of us actually come here to help others.
10/04/2009 (11:22 am)
Quote:How do we incorporate MYSQL ?Never actually attempted MYSQL, but I don't see anything as to why it would not work in Torque3d. The other three questions are rather easy, if you have the knowledge.
How do we do login system?
How do we connect php
How do we inventory control
Quote:I SWARE TO GOD, I Hope GG Doesnt delete the TGE and TGEA Resources and Forums which years and years of information have been piled into. if so, can we say Dumb move?Nowhere has it been said that the Forums or the Resources will be removed, only that sales of the old product will cease after xxx date.
Quote:We built up an engine for greatness. and they destroyed all the hard work put in by others by not even offering service anymore to it. Well, ya sure lets start over and over and over and over. Keep discontinueing the services every time our community actually builds on a product that can actually be used to make a game.I've seen your rants, provocation, and outright libel, in the past couple of months... and I still have a hard time understanding where you're coming from with this one.
The Community is upheld by many upstanding people: old ones still around, some that are new, and it will continue with those yet to come. When you actually take part in it, you just may be taken a little bit more seriously.
Constructive criticism, bug reports, honest problems, seeking of advice or help, questions, attempting to learn, are always welcome. Ignorance and whining are the symptoms of either a child, a troll, someone fomenting discord, or someone blaming others for their own failures. Some people should and sit and think for a moment though before they hit that "Post" button -- because they damn sure don't engender any community goodwill from some of us!
EDIT: and yes, I did in fact ignore your questions above -- other than to say it was possible... and it should be obvious as to why. Some of us actually come here to help others.
#72
Have you even looked at T3D? If you had, you would know how ludicrous that statement is. T3D is NOT tge with a bunch of user created resources. You can't even compare tge with T3D. I know. I own all 3 engines. (tge, tgea, T3D) They are completely different engines that all started with 1 engine.
GG hasn't distroyed anything. They have made a vastly superior engine.
10/04/2009 (11:43 am)
Quote:Blah Blah, Notice all these resources were available from TGE. Once t3d has these resources.... GG will release a new engine and disable T3D...Where do you get this from?
Practically thats what they have done here.
Have you even looked at T3D? If you had, you would know how ludicrous that statement is. T3D is NOT tge with a bunch of user created resources. You can't even compare tge with T3D. I know. I own all 3 engines. (tge, tgea, T3D) They are completely different engines that all started with 1 engine.
Quote:We built up an engine for greatness. and they destroyed all the hard work put in by others by not even offering service anymore to it. Well, ya sure lets start over and over and over and over. Keep discontinueing the services every time our community actually builds on a product that can actually be used to make a game.Another misguided quote.
GG hasn't distroyed anything. They have made a vastly superior engine.
Quote:Considering all the old school engine builders have practically left which were the ones who offered us alot of the tutorials.You may want to check your facts. Some of these people are still here.
Dreamer, Af, Tony, Dan, and god knows... many others.
#73
So if you change your lighting to "basic" from advanced lighting in T3D which in most cases about 90% of people need to do or it just purely kills the engine frames... not due to it being great just due to bad coding.
Anyways, Go ahead and press your console after you have this basic lighting switch..... Notice how its all TGE lighting code front :P
as to calling a statement saying it is ludicrous to think t3d will go away... Right... we said the same thing about tge :)
10/04/2009 (4:38 pm)
Umm... I do agree with some of the things people have said here. Now this is not an attack but yet im just checking my "Facts" as mike wants.So if you change your lighting to "basic" from advanced lighting in T3D which in most cases about 90% of people need to do or it just purely kills the engine frames... not due to it being great just due to bad coding.
Anyways, Go ahead and press your console after you have this basic lighting switch..... Notice how its all TGE lighting code front :P
as to calling a statement saying it is ludicrous to think t3d will go away... Right... we said the same thing about tge :)
#74
Follow the directions in the 3-4 resources out there. With the ODBC resource, I added the files to T3D and recompiled and it works as well as it has when I added it to TGE and then later to TGEA.
How do you make your game? I mean, these are really immature questions. You want an inventory system? Go make one. There are several tutorials and threads to look through, and in the end, I created my own. Same for PHP and the login system.
These resources are available to be used in T3D, since I'm using one or two. Honestly, GG could have hired on some community people for a few months to revamp these resources and add them to the engine, or create their own versions, but they didn't. You know why? Because T3D is not an MMO engine. It's a generic game engine.
It takes all of 5 minutes to incorporate the ODBC resource, and the other resources can all be ported if you have sufficient knowledge, so this argument, besides being paranoid, is based on a false premis (some resources came out for TGE and have been around for years, so by your reasoning they should have been in TGEA already).
Robert, what would be better is to check them before you post them.
10/04/2009 (5:11 pm)
Quote:How do we incorporate MYSQL ?
Follow the directions in the 3-4 resources out there. With the ODBC resource, I added the files to T3D and recompiled and it works as well as it has when I added it to TGE and then later to TGEA.
Quote:How do we do login system?
How do we connect php
How do we inventory control
How do you make your game? I mean, these are really immature questions. You want an inventory system? Go make one. There are several tutorials and threads to look through, and in the end, I created my own. Same for PHP and the login system.
Quote:Blah Blah, Notice all these resources were available from TGE. Once t3d has these resources.... GG will release a new engine and disable T3D...
These resources are available to be used in T3D, since I'm using one or two. Honestly, GG could have hired on some community people for a few months to revamp these resources and add them to the engine, or create their own versions, but they didn't. You know why? Because T3D is not an MMO engine. It's a generic game engine.
It takes all of 5 minutes to incorporate the ODBC resource, and the other resources can all be ported if you have sufficient knowledge, so this argument, besides being paranoid, is based on a false premis (some resources came out for TGE and have been around for years, so by your reasoning they should have been in TGEA already).
Quote:Now this is not an attack but yet im just checking my "Facts" as mike wants.
Robert, what would be better is to check them before you post them.
#75
Also, if you are going to quote people, use the [quote] tags so that people don't think that those statements are coming from you (even though you might agree with them). Though, it funny that you picked out all the posts which allude to "conspiracy". Over the top much?
Anyway, why are you even here Robert? I thought you had moved on from GG and were off to use Shiva or something else? If you don't like the tech, don't use it - its pretty simple.
10/04/2009 (7:22 pm)
Welcome back. Its nice to see that you're trying to sneak questions about the tech in here while at the same time complaining about it. I suggest that if you intend on using the engine and want to make inquires that you open up a new thread.Also, if you are going to quote people, use the [quote] tags so that people don't think that those statements are coming from you (even though you might agree with them). Though, it funny that you picked out all the posts which allude to "conspiracy". Over the top much?
Anyway, why are you even here Robert? I thought you had moved on from GG and were off to use Shiva or something else? If you don't like the tech, don't use it - its pretty simple.
#76
You haven't even made an attempt to understand the "facts".
It really looks as if you're just out for an argument here. Seriously Robert, if you're going to keep pissing in the wind like this, do everyone a favour and just leave.
10/04/2009 (7:30 pm)
Quote:So if you change your lighting to "basic" from advanced lighting in T3D which in most cases about 90% of people need to do or it just purely kills the engine frames... not due to it being great just due to bad coding.Do you even try to understand the technology here or are you just ignorant for the sake of creating an argument? Go and read up about Basic vs. Advanced lighting.
You haven't even made an attempt to understand the "facts".
Quote:as to calling a statement saying it is ludicrous to think t3d will go away... Right... we said the same thing about tge :)What kind of statement is that anyway? You obviously have little understanding of how a product cycle or even how a business works.
It really looks as if you're just out for an argument here. Seriously Robert, if you're going to keep pissing in the wind like this, do everyone a favour and just leave.
#77
10/05/2009 (5:03 am)
I am beginning to wonder if he is from Earth. 
#78
Gotta say that people should just stop answering here, really nothing constructive is going to come from this thread just a lot of venting and conspiracy thoughts.
10/05/2009 (10:09 am)
Oh is this thread still going, I thought Robert and his team moved off to work with Shiva game engine?? Wow that's gotta be one of the shortest exits in history.Gotta say that people should just stop answering here, really nothing constructive is going to come from this thread just a lot of venting and conspiracy thoughts.
#79
10/05/2009 (5:34 pm)
Quote:just a lot of venting and conspiracy thoughtsBut it IS a conspiricy. GG is conspiring to build the best engine on the market.
Quote:I thought Robert and his team moved off to work with Shiva game engine??Nope. He's still here posting new threads to say the same thing he did here.
Torque 3D Owner Andrew Brady
If it's a medication, I'd like to try some.