50/50 or 20 percent is B.S.

#1 gee... maybe because they aren't JUST MARKETING. You can feel free to go do a deal with those guys for 5% after you've written your own engine, or bought another engine for many, many times the amount of money that you would have payed for the V12 engine.

For god's sake, people, do some real research on how much stuff actually costs before you go crapping all over what GarageGames is offering. Offering being the key word here, if you don't like it, feel free to NOT BUY IT.

#2 Not to mention the fact that "Marketing" people taking 5 percent is the actual BS here.

Most publishers take 70+% of the *wholesale* sales, which are usually less than half the box price.

GG is providing you with a working, tested engine that sold many more copies than most of us can ever hope for. Seems like a really good deal to me...

Josh

#3 Your lucky to see much of anything after paying for the "costs of goods".

#4 Last I knew, the UT/Unreal engine was around $150-200k w/ 7% royalties going to Epic (Note: these #'s are a couple years old, and may not be anything close to what it costs now). Then you would still need to find a publisher, which will cost another chunk. And 15-20% for marketing and reproduction and distribution seems about right to me. So you could drop $150k and only give up 15-25% (even higher is more realistic in my experience) total, or drop $100 and give up 50%. If you have a game that's gonna sell 50k+ copies at $50, then go get a publisher, it's a better deal. But you need to move copies in a large volume to make up for the initial investment.

Now, if you need/want the publisher to front the cash for the liscence and pay you and your team for the length of the development, I bet you will see less than 50%.

So yes, if you are sitting on a million copy seller, you'd be insane to liscence V12 through GG, just go straight to Sierra.

N.V.

#5 actually, if there was a V12-based game that was gonna go platinum, Sierra would step in and publish it. I recall seeing something like that in the EULA.

#6 Get over it. Great engine, no investment.

If it's BS, don't buy it :)

#7 Matt. You are way off base. Your comment show that you do not understand the first thing about how the industry runs. You should do a little homework before you criticize what you don't understand.

I would recommend that you don't purchase the V12.

Jeff Tunnell GG

#8 From what I understand, your getting something comparable to lithtec for $100,(instead of $250K)
Im pretty sure sierra isint out just to screw everybody over. (why hurt the team that could produce your next big seller?)

#9 Garagegames makes practically nothing off of the initial sale of the source code, they are provide the V12 community with a place to meet, and provide e-commerce abilities to sell the game that you make with the engine that you bought for a song and a dance, and you have the audacity to whine about the profit from sales?

Have you ever run a business or been involved in the management of a business? As much as you might think they can, companies cannot do things for free. The 50% of the sales is a small price to pay for GarageGames giving interested parties so much stuff for practically nothing off the start.

I agree with Jeff Tunnell's statement that you need to do more research, especially before you go shooting your mouth off about something you obviously do not understand.

Logan

#10 "If anyone here tonight is in marketing or advertising, would you please do us all a favor and kill yourselves? Thank you."

--- Bill Hicks

#11 Frederick,

"comparable to Lithtech"

Hah! You have obviously never used Lithtech. We are using it right now and -- umm... the pain is great! There are a few "feeeaaatures" in Lithtech they don't quite advertise.

I'd say more, but Lithtech will probably dig up this post and use it against me next time I need tech support. ;P I hope V12 is better than Lithtech. :)

#12 HAHAHAHAHA I think you guys scared him away :)

#13 well to me lith = a game engin designed specificaly for game makers. not game players.

thats what v-12 is supposed to become, correct?


weather your happy with an engin or not depends as much on your team and what your attempting in a project, as it does on the support of the people you bought it from.

for 250k, I would expect a hell of alot of support, lol

for $100, I dont expect that much. but it sounds like we'll get a higher grade of treatment than we paid for.

So, it SOUNDS like v-12 will become the better deal. at least from this viewpoint.

#14 Frederick,

The most important thing is how much V12 is a "game" engine and not just a "rendering" engine. Game engines have rendering, physics, animation, audio, and networking engine with model exporting and level design tools. A clean and well documented the API and intutive tools are very important too.

I think most everyone here knows a solid network engine is critical -- especially all the MMORPGs planned. :) Look at AO, WWIIO, even the first generation of Lithtech games; you can see how hard good network code to "rewrite" if the engine doesn't already provide it.

Sierra has made Garagegame strip out much of the Tribes 2 stuff. Let's they haven't strip out the functionality. Otherwise you might as well use Genesis3D or Crystal Space. There's network code in those engine -- it just doesn't work... well. :)

#15 Sierra has a right to protect their interests in this.
But they above all should know the value of a good mod team ;)
Just think of how many copies of halflife, homeworld, and tribes they have sold over the years because of user made add ons.

I look at it this way:
if you succeed and start pushing a$$ loads of software, Sierra would then be your biggest contact/lifeline to the world of professional game making.

meaning they get first crack at hiring/producing your peeps talent.
Heck, your so despirate to get paid for doing what comes nautrally. you would probly work for a song and just enough cash to buy lunch :p

Compare that to what other companies pay for talent and top of the line products.

#16 The networking code in the v12 works just fine =)

#17 Matthew,

As we say... W00T!

You see I need good network code because I have brand new idea for a game. It is RPG where you spend months raising stats and getting items and there is multiplayer where thousands of people can hunt monsters and there will be a monthly fee and... and I call it an MMORP... uh nevermind. ;)

#18 I copy and roger that WOOT! :D

I wouldent worry about conflict of interest if your just starting out now. gonna be some time your ready to ship even if you work at a breakneck pace.

enough time for sierra to relax a bit I hope.

#19 My 2 cents...

To GarageGames & Sierra people:

Thank you very much.

We look forward to using the V12 after we get our demo done with another engine (as gameplay examples) for the 2002 GDC.

We appreciate the efforts of GG's staff, and we agree with MOST of the V12 EULA. We like the business model.

Keep up the good efforts,

The Gabriel FACTOR(TM) DevTeam
AGFRAG Entertainment
www.agfrag.com

#20 Don't you get lithtech for free with realarcade.com with a license agreement similar to the one here?