Time to move on
by Robert Fritzen · 03/19/2014 (7:04 pm) · 15 comments
So, what seemed like a hot streak towards my hopeful goal has come to a screeching end with I sent out last week. This isn't going to be a blog about me complaining or ranting, just more-so a blog about wondering what went wrong and why everything just "stopped".
Last time, I brought up a blog announcing the release of the full version of my pack, along with the final pack entry, which seemed in my mind to draw a lot of interest from the crowd here in terms of people who would be interested in grabbing a copy, and trust me, me getting ahead of schedule on my work for the pack made it feel even better to get done at the time it was completed. So, I posted the blog and sent off for the night (trust me, it was a long day of work getting all the final pieces together) with prospects of returning the next day to work even further. Unfortunately, I awoke to only a few responses, and they were all directed at my comment at the end of the blog where I stated my intent to leave for work on my own engine.
So, I just sat off of work for a day thinking about my decision to work on my own engine versus hanging around T3D to see what would come out of the next few months, even put forth another pack or two for the individuals who wanted more from what I know. Day 2 after the blog post, a few more comments, and absolutely nothing in terms of sales from any of the three releases. So, I went back to the drawing board to try to find out what went wrong, and why nobody was even remotely interested in the pack that was "apparently" going to be the best of the pack. And then there was the fact that I hadn't posted any screenshots, so I went pack and added four shots from the pack.
Day 3 (Today) brought no change whatsoever, and now I've come to this, what seems to be the last, point in time for my pack development. What honestly felt, was going to turn to be what was going to be my success story for my work, ended in a catastrophic failure in terms of what I was remotely hoping for. Therefore, I came back to that decision cross-road I mentioned yesterday, and for better or for worse, I decided that it is now time for me to move on. So, I regret to announce that I am cancelling the final "proposed" add-on and "pack split" AFPSK Full. There is absolutely no point in me spending any more of my time on something that won't be recognized, or even used for that manner.
I apologize to anyone who was "waiting" for that pack, although at this point in time, I can't even imagine there was anyone in the first place. As a last ditch effort to try to save anything left out of my work, I've decided to drop AFPSK Lite to $40, and the Bundle to $55. Now, as I said before, I'm not ranting, or complaining about anything here, I'm only expressing my disappointment to what seemed like something I corrected after the mistakes of my second pack.
At this point in time, I am now halting all of my programming towards Torque 3D to start long term work on my own project, I'll post details regarding that at the relevant time. I'll still be around here but in more of a consultant role who will simply guide you along with what I know. If anyone is interested in using my knowledge for project related stuff, you can shoot me an email at any time or simply post on the forums, I'll still poke in at least once or twice a day.
In all honesty, I hope for the best for this engine, it was the very first place that I picked up computer programming, it was the first place for many things, and it has grown me into a much better and wiser programmer with time, and I cannot thank everyone here for the amount of time and support that was given for the many challenges I took on and failed to accomplish myself. So, thank you for everything, and best wishes to all of my fellow Torque Devs.
Signing Off!
~Robert
Last time, I brought up a blog announcing the release of the full version of my pack, along with the final pack entry, which seemed in my mind to draw a lot of interest from the crowd here in terms of people who would be interested in grabbing a copy, and trust me, me getting ahead of schedule on my work for the pack made it feel even better to get done at the time it was completed. So, I posted the blog and sent off for the night (trust me, it was a long day of work getting all the final pieces together) with prospects of returning the next day to work even further. Unfortunately, I awoke to only a few responses, and they were all directed at my comment at the end of the blog where I stated my intent to leave for work on my own engine.
So, I just sat off of work for a day thinking about my decision to work on my own engine versus hanging around T3D to see what would come out of the next few months, even put forth another pack or two for the individuals who wanted more from what I know. Day 2 after the blog post, a few more comments, and absolutely nothing in terms of sales from any of the three releases. So, I went back to the drawing board to try to find out what went wrong, and why nobody was even remotely interested in the pack that was "apparently" going to be the best of the pack. And then there was the fact that I hadn't posted any screenshots, so I went pack and added four shots from the pack.
Day 3 (Today) brought no change whatsoever, and now I've come to this, what seems to be the last, point in time for my pack development. What honestly felt, was going to turn to be what was going to be my success story for my work, ended in a catastrophic failure in terms of what I was remotely hoping for. Therefore, I came back to that decision cross-road I mentioned yesterday, and for better or for worse, I decided that it is now time for me to move on. So, I regret to announce that I am cancelling the final "proposed" add-on and "pack split" AFPSK Full. There is absolutely no point in me spending any more of my time on something that won't be recognized, or even used for that manner.
I apologize to anyone who was "waiting" for that pack, although at this point in time, I can't even imagine there was anyone in the first place. As a last ditch effort to try to save anything left out of my work, I've decided to drop AFPSK Lite to $40, and the Bundle to $55. Now, as I said before, I'm not ranting, or complaining about anything here, I'm only expressing my disappointment to what seemed like something I corrected after the mistakes of my second pack.
At this point in time, I am now halting all of my programming towards Torque 3D to start long term work on my own project, I'll post details regarding that at the relevant time. I'll still be around here but in more of a consultant role who will simply guide you along with what I know. If anyone is interested in using my knowledge for project related stuff, you can shoot me an email at any time or simply post on the forums, I'll still poke in at least once or twice a day.
In all honesty, I hope for the best for this engine, it was the very first place that I picked up computer programming, it was the first place for many things, and it has grown me into a much better and wiser programmer with time, and I cannot thank everyone here for the amount of time and support that was given for the many challenges I took on and failed to accomplish myself. So, thank you for everything, and best wishes to all of my fellow Torque Devs.
Signing Off!
~Robert
About the author
Illinois Grad. Retired T3D Developer / Pack Dev.
#2
03/19/2014 (7:52 pm)
@Chris: I'll provide full support for the pack for anyone who needs it, and I'll fill in the gaps in areas that need updates (IE: Circle Radars). Other than that, my work on it is complete. 
#3
Anyway, I hope the best for you in your new goals.
03/19/2014 (10:51 pm)
I'm sorry to hear your disappointment. You have put a lot of time and afford into your packs. I really appreciate your work! I don't think you failed. Torque 3D has been struggling for a long time now and with the other major game engines adopting indie development doesn't help Torque 3D. I feel that when Instant Action took over it damaged Torque very badly and it hasn't fully recovered (I don't think it will have recover back to where it was). I grew up with TGE and I remember back in the day where the community was flourishing. In the past I have thought about moving to another engine (this was when we got the news about Instant Action closing) but I have invested a lot of time and money into the engine to move (this is my thoughts and I know everyone is different).Anyway, I hope the best for you in your new goals.
#4
Can the concepts in your packs be applied to other engines? It is possible that other engines need those features. The commonalities could be extracted and classes built for specific engine usage. I would guess if there is a need you could make a buck or two with Unity or some of the other engines. So potentially none of your work is really wasted. You also learned a ton about it. That is applicable everywhere.
03/19/2014 (10:57 pm)
@Robert, Can the concepts in your packs be applied to other engines? It is possible that other engines need those features. The commonalities could be extracted and classes built for specific engine usage. I would guess if there is a need you could make a buck or two with Unity or some of the other engines. So potentially none of your work is really wasted. You also learned a ton about it. That is applicable everywhere.
#5
From experience (uk wise) it has been really difficult to get a pack in the GG store as there are lots of red tape involved with the IRS etc, this needs to change somehow as I can't see GG getting that much revenue from 3rd party packs these days, so why not have a Torque branded site (either setup by GG or someone else) and really have a collective gathering of art, genre and code packs) - the more there are the more chances of people buying.
It's a shame we can't include banners with links in a signature on each post, yeah it may look a bit messy but it will keep peoples games and packs in the limelight.
Just keep posting blogs about your packs and post a few forum entries with info on them to keep people aware. That's all it comes down to awareness!
03/20/2014 (3:34 am)
@Robert - I think its just timing, at the moment the engine is in flux, but that will change with the help of people like you. All it takes is about 10-20 people to create packs, have a link from the GG website for 3rd party packs to another website that has collective links directly to your own website and the engine looks hugely supported - keep the external site maintained through a template. From experience (uk wise) it has been really difficult to get a pack in the GG store as there are lots of red tape involved with the IRS etc, this needs to change somehow as I can't see GG getting that much revenue from 3rd party packs these days, so why not have a Torque branded site (either setup by GG or someone else) and really have a collective gathering of art, genre and code packs) - the more there are the more chances of people buying.
It's a shame we can't include banners with links in a signature on each post, yeah it may look a bit messy but it will keep peoples games and packs in the limelight.
Just keep posting blogs about your packs and post a few forum entries with info on them to keep people aware. That's all it comes down to awareness!
#6
If you want your work to pay off, you should likely go for producing games, something like small games for mobile market or steam, there is much more customers.
03/20/2014 (6:15 am)
Making middleware for Torque3D will never pay off I think, does not matter much what or how good you do it, there is not enough customers.If you want your work to pay off, you should likely go for producing games, something like small games for mobile market or steam, there is much more customers.
#7
03/20/2014 (2:15 pm)
@Duion - At first I believed the same thing.. but then you have to think, how would Torque get those customers? You need something to bring them in. What looks good about Unity, its not just the engine that appeals to people, but also the amount of add-ons/packs that you can buy from their store. It may take some time, but before long you'll have Torque competing with the likes of Unity/CryEngine/UDK4 - as long as people stick to developing the tech and releasing it to the community, such as linux and mac support, upgrading the rendering / direct x 11, once those are there then there should be no stopping Torque from being up there with the paid engines.
#8
03/20/2014 (2:19 pm)
I'm sure people would help continue to contribute revenue to these developments like they are now. So I wouldn't just down tools for Torque if you want to make packs, because a lot of packs are developed and used in their own games too, so why not make use of both worlds.
#9
03/20/2014 (2:29 pm)
It's also just a matter of time before someone upgrades Torque to the latest tech and resells that engine under another flavour without breaking the mold too much. Now that would be something, and when that day is here people should be ready with their packs!
#10
It amazes me when artists post their wares at GG and the majority of the art is Unity only. They would get sales if they took the time to make a Torque compatible version.
03/20/2014 (3:05 pm)
Make packs that can be applied to multiple engines. It amazes me when artists post their wares at GG and the majority of the art is Unity only. They would get sales if they took the time to make a Torque compatible version.
#11
My own engine currently is taking my priority, and honestly, I'm making some exceptional progress on it. I've had a few conversations with some individuals and it seems like the only real reason that I'm "stepping aside" per say is the fact that the engine is currently in a state of flux in terms of what it can do.
Perhaps time will be the solution to my problem?
03/20/2014 (7:23 pm)
@Demo: You're probably right in terms of what I should be targeting. I've noticed only one "auth" solution on Unity and that's an engine that could benefit from something like the crypto module I provided in MAP. I might have to see if I can put together an authentication package for Unity and UE4 (Eventually, when I get the source).My own engine currently is taking my priority, and honestly, I'm making some exceptional progress on it. I've had a few conversations with some individuals and it seems like the only real reason that I'm "stepping aside" per say is the fact that the engine is currently in a state of flux in terms of what it can do.
Perhaps time will be the solution to my problem?
#12
I've only seen bits and pieces of your pack from the screenshots and I think I posted a comment on it, because I love good hard work from people. A few ideas however...
First and foremost is how do you publish your work, when you see a commercial for cereal you certainly don't see the real deal, you see the one with Elmer's glue around the rim to make it look perfect. That said come out with your pack in it's best light, don't post the data, post the pictures first-we (the idiots of the world who only speak 1/2 uber) want PICTURES! VIDEOS! SOUND CLIPS! FIRST PERSON ACCOUNTS! Come at us like your a motion picture, not selling healthcare.gov (LOL!!!), You could always use Rons map pack to give glamor and show us how good your work can be when coupled with other peoples work. Just an idea.
Second, you're not selling to a large market... idk about you but to me I don't like spending a nickel, so to pay $55 for something seems outrageous especially since most things bought for T3D may never be used in my case... I have quite a bit of stuff, and I purchased one of Rons packs just for it to be freely released *which kind of pissed me off*, lower the price, why are you shooting so high in price? Be honest... be TRULY honest, when you go to Wal-Mart and want to buy a tub, would you spend $50 on a rubber made tub or $14.99 on the Walmart brand? BE HONEST! Da Hell with durability and the brand name, it's a depression man! We need deals.
I have seen your work-I know your work is worth beyond $55 but be realistic-you're not marketing to a community with $$$... you're marketing to a very low budget area of game developers with not a lot of $-most of the developers here cannot even afford Steam Greenlight until they file their taxes (no offense people), but a $10-$15 pack doesn't seem that big... I mean we spend that much on a whopper with large fry and coke... why not a game pack too.
Just consider those before you toss in your hat. If we lose good developers like you this community really will go Belly up! We lost Ron already and you're equal to him in the programming arena. Don't go-Just adjust fire and keep moving! Also join my Torque3d page, https://www.facebook.com/Torque3D-You should put up your products on there! Just be damn sure to glamorize that stuff! Heck spam my website, http://torque3d.net/
I give these open invitations OUT to everyone and yet few jump on them. So if you miss a customer or two because you didn't extend your reach outside of garagegames.com then who's fault is it really? The communities or the developers lack of motivation to fully market the product?
Cheers!
03/21/2014 (10:26 pm)
@RobertI've only seen bits and pieces of your pack from the screenshots and I think I posted a comment on it, because I love good hard work from people. A few ideas however...
First and foremost is how do you publish your work, when you see a commercial for cereal you certainly don't see the real deal, you see the one with Elmer's glue around the rim to make it look perfect. That said come out with your pack in it's best light, don't post the data, post the pictures first-we (the idiots of the world who only speak 1/2 uber) want PICTURES! VIDEOS! SOUND CLIPS! FIRST PERSON ACCOUNTS! Come at us like your a motion picture, not selling healthcare.gov (LOL!!!), You could always use Rons map pack to give glamor and show us how good your work can be when coupled with other peoples work. Just an idea.
Second, you're not selling to a large market... idk about you but to me I don't like spending a nickel, so to pay $55 for something seems outrageous especially since most things bought for T3D may never be used in my case... I have quite a bit of stuff, and I purchased one of Rons packs just for it to be freely released *which kind of pissed me off*, lower the price, why are you shooting so high in price? Be honest... be TRULY honest, when you go to Wal-Mart and want to buy a tub, would you spend $50 on a rubber made tub or $14.99 on the Walmart brand? BE HONEST! Da Hell with durability and the brand name, it's a depression man! We need deals.
I have seen your work-I know your work is worth beyond $55 but be realistic-you're not marketing to a community with $$$... you're marketing to a very low budget area of game developers with not a lot of $-most of the developers here cannot even afford Steam Greenlight until they file their taxes (no offense people), but a $10-$15 pack doesn't seem that big... I mean we spend that much on a whopper with large fry and coke... why not a game pack too.
Just consider those before you toss in your hat. If we lose good developers like you this community really will go Belly up! We lost Ron already and you're equal to him in the programming arena. Don't go-Just adjust fire and keep moving! Also join my Torque3d page, https://www.facebook.com/Torque3D-You should put up your products on there! Just be damn sure to glamorize that stuff! Heck spam my website, http://torque3d.net/
I give these open invitations OUT to everyone and yet few jump on them. So if you miss a customer or two because you didn't extend your reach outside of garagegames.com then who's fault is it really? The communities or the developers lack of motivation to fully market the product?
Cheers!
#13
03/22/2014 (9:02 am)
To Follow up on my post, my Facebook Torque3d page now has 61 likes, the post I put up last night *which are mainly GG blog post and some cheap/free games* have reached 18 people within the last 12 hours. Not gaping numbers but hey it's growing, people are seeing what T3D has to offer and they're acting on it. At some point I'll only post stuff from Torque3d.net and a few very awesome post from GG... people will need to interact with Torque3d.net more or their post won't get caught... a great upside for marketing if you're a vendor. I accept solicitors :D
#14
I've got one and will upload it later this evening and I'll attach it to the blog posts.
EDIT: Here you go.
03/23/2014 (4:01 pm)
@James You're right, I should have posted a demo video a long time ago for this, my screenshots were not enough.I've got one and will upload it later this evening and I'll attach it to the blog posts.
EDIT: Here you go.
Chris DeBoy