more mmo progress
by Grant Kessler · 08/23/2007 (9:26 pm) · 8 comments
for those who care here it goes xD
this actually helps me sort out my thoughts more than anything really...
anyways...
Relic Online is moving quite well. We've been focusing on the game design document more than anything. We've worked out most of the problems (in our heads and on paper anyways) about the jobs, classes, stats, leveling, guilds, families, and kingdoms. Again, like i said this helps me sort out things, so i will go ahead and explain everything to a certain extent.
The jobs on RO are simply jobs. They arn't things like warrior, mage, bard, but things like blacksmith, tailor, sailor, ect (I hate it when mmo's call classes "jobs"). Every single job has 4 stages to it, they are seperated by the players job level, the first 0-25, second 26-50, third 51-75, then fourth 76+. We are going to go ahead and let the players level their jobs to infinity, but technically they cant go past level 99999. Basically we're doing this so those people who keep making things, and get good at it, are obvious. When you check another players profile you will know hes been doing his job a long ass time, plus it gives the players something to do instead of just get capped. their abilities will go up, and chances to make items increase, but not by much after lv100. every player can only pick one job to do at a time. they can switch and go to another job, though. they can also be jobless if they desire. there are about 25 jobs, so im not going to go into detail, but some jobs are blacksmith, goldsmith, carpenter, tailor, sailor, pirate, merchant, engineer, pet tamer, performer, and mercenary. all jobs have guilds you can go to, and guilds like the blacksmith guild will sell items or give you creation boosts, while guilds like the sailor guild or mercenary guild allow you to pick up jobs for money, like taking merchant items to another continent, or assassinating the king for someone.
Classes in RO are warriors, mages, rogues, things like that. (to insert before i go on, players can lv up to lv255 in RO) There are the classic rpg stats to go along with them. when a player picks a class, he is stuck with the class, unless there is a 2nd level to it. for example, warrior is a base class, but from there, you can choose to stay as warrior, or around lv50 you can train to be a knight. if you choose knight, at lv 75 you can choose to stay as knight, or go up to dark knight, paladin, or dragoon. There are about 7 base classes, and about 22 classes total. There are certain class abilities you get as well, and some are much better than others, so some players may be convinced they watnt the finisher as a lv 150 warrior, instead of losing that ability by going to be a knight at lv 50. Thats another thing, if you change classes to a 2nd tier when available, you cannot go back. thats like saying i went from novice to journeyman, then back to novice in our game. there is a special ability for each class as and entrance, and a very good ability towards the last levels (around lv200) for each class, so people will want to be all of them. :)
Stats are, like i said before, classic rpg style stats. theres str, def, vit, dex, int, mnd, lck, agi, and eva. there are also some substats, like hit% and stick(stick is how long an enfeeble spell sticks on the enemy). all stats go up a certain amount at each player lv up based on the players lv, previous stats, race, class, and int.
Leveling is pretty basic in RO, except for the fact that you can level all the way up to lv 255. leveling up is based off the race and class you are as well.
Guilds are unique on RO. They are meant to be like small armies, but can be used as social groups and other things as well. Guilds are made up of a leader, coleaders, officers, recruiters, and regular members.
guilds can be ran in game as well as from the website.
families are much like guilds, except...for families. they are made of a creator, which is a father, then a mother, and each father/mother can have 3 sons and 3 daughters. if the sons and daughters want kids, it works the same way for father/mother, and goes down a family tree. only the creator of the family can kick people out though.
kingdoms are completely ran by players(but there are systems to help). they are kind of like guilds in ranks, because there is a king, prince/princess, senate, lords, dukes, and ambassadors. there are also ranks for the army, as general, colonel, leuitenant, captain, and officers. the navy has admirals, officers, commadores, and captains. Craft guilds help fund the kingdom, taking 10% from all sales to and from the guild, as well as services providing jobs. all the money goes into the kings pocket, and he can distribute evenly as needed. if he doesnt, he probably wont have many people helping him run his kingdom, and he will be assassinated (if you kill the king in his castle, or in a duel/battle, the victor is king) or the kingdom will be taken over by foreign lands. When a kingdom controls a town, its flags are automatically there, showing it is part of a kingdom. if a kingdom wants to take over a town, all they have to do is make it where their army is the only army in the town, and they control it. guards can be kept there to ensure it stays in that kingdoms lands.
i guess thats a buttload of a paragraph. once the document is finished, ill upload an unconfidential version somewhere, so people can see in detail some of the features. lemme have some feedback guys, i wanna know if this is gay or not xD
thanks
this actually helps me sort out my thoughts more than anything really...
anyways...
Relic Online is moving quite well. We've been focusing on the game design document more than anything. We've worked out most of the problems (in our heads and on paper anyways) about the jobs, classes, stats, leveling, guilds, families, and kingdoms. Again, like i said this helps me sort out things, so i will go ahead and explain everything to a certain extent.
The jobs on RO are simply jobs. They arn't things like warrior, mage, bard, but things like blacksmith, tailor, sailor, ect (I hate it when mmo's call classes "jobs"). Every single job has 4 stages to it, they are seperated by the players job level, the first 0-25, second 26-50, third 51-75, then fourth 76+. We are going to go ahead and let the players level their jobs to infinity, but technically they cant go past level 99999. Basically we're doing this so those people who keep making things, and get good at it, are obvious. When you check another players profile you will know hes been doing his job a long ass time, plus it gives the players something to do instead of just get capped. their abilities will go up, and chances to make items increase, but not by much after lv100. every player can only pick one job to do at a time. they can switch and go to another job, though. they can also be jobless if they desire. there are about 25 jobs, so im not going to go into detail, but some jobs are blacksmith, goldsmith, carpenter, tailor, sailor, pirate, merchant, engineer, pet tamer, performer, and mercenary. all jobs have guilds you can go to, and guilds like the blacksmith guild will sell items or give you creation boosts, while guilds like the sailor guild or mercenary guild allow you to pick up jobs for money, like taking merchant items to another continent, or assassinating the king for someone.
Classes in RO are warriors, mages, rogues, things like that. (to insert before i go on, players can lv up to lv255 in RO) There are the classic rpg stats to go along with them. when a player picks a class, he is stuck with the class, unless there is a 2nd level to it. for example, warrior is a base class, but from there, you can choose to stay as warrior, or around lv50 you can train to be a knight. if you choose knight, at lv 75 you can choose to stay as knight, or go up to dark knight, paladin, or dragoon. There are about 7 base classes, and about 22 classes total. There are certain class abilities you get as well, and some are much better than others, so some players may be convinced they watnt the finisher as a lv 150 warrior, instead of losing that ability by going to be a knight at lv 50. Thats another thing, if you change classes to a 2nd tier when available, you cannot go back. thats like saying i went from novice to journeyman, then back to novice in our game. there is a special ability for each class as and entrance, and a very good ability towards the last levels (around lv200) for each class, so people will want to be all of them. :)
Stats are, like i said before, classic rpg style stats. theres str, def, vit, dex, int, mnd, lck, agi, and eva. there are also some substats, like hit% and stick(stick is how long an enfeeble spell sticks on the enemy). all stats go up a certain amount at each player lv up based on the players lv, previous stats, race, class, and int.
Leveling is pretty basic in RO, except for the fact that you can level all the way up to lv 255. leveling up is based off the race and class you are as well.
Guilds are unique on RO. They are meant to be like small armies, but can be used as social groups and other things as well. Guilds are made up of a leader, coleaders, officers, recruiters, and regular members.
guilds can be ran in game as well as from the website.
families are much like guilds, except...for families. they are made of a creator, which is a father, then a mother, and each father/mother can have 3 sons and 3 daughters. if the sons and daughters want kids, it works the same way for father/mother, and goes down a family tree. only the creator of the family can kick people out though.
kingdoms are completely ran by players(but there are systems to help). they are kind of like guilds in ranks, because there is a king, prince/princess, senate, lords, dukes, and ambassadors. there are also ranks for the army, as general, colonel, leuitenant, captain, and officers. the navy has admirals, officers, commadores, and captains. Craft guilds help fund the kingdom, taking 10% from all sales to and from the guild, as well as services providing jobs. all the money goes into the kings pocket, and he can distribute evenly as needed. if he doesnt, he probably wont have many people helping him run his kingdom, and he will be assassinated (if you kill the king in his castle, or in a duel/battle, the victor is king) or the kingdom will be taken over by foreign lands. When a kingdom controls a town, its flags are automatically there, showing it is part of a kingdom. if a kingdom wants to take over a town, all they have to do is make it where their army is the only army in the town, and they control it. guards can be kept there to ensure it stays in that kingdoms lands.
i guess thats a buttload of a paragraph. once the document is finished, ill upload an unconfidential version somewhere, so people can see in detail some of the features. lemme have some feedback guys, i wanna know if this is gay or not xD
thanks
About the author
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#2
There's only a few MMO's I've seen that go against the standard grind and level system. One been Eve-Online, which does "realtime" skill training, no matter whether you're playing or not, your skills will continue to train at x points per day. Although the grind in EVE can become one of money making rather than skill leveling. That said, the grind can be limited and removed altogether as you play the game longer and team up with others.
Another one is Tale in the Desert. Not played this one, but it sounds pretty unique with little emphasis on combat.
I'm sure there will be others I'm not aware of, I remember seeing one aimed at kids that can be used to look after their virtual pet (once they've bought the toy version and registered it). On the whole though, most MMO's seem to stick to the same formula that has been used for decades by MUDs.
08/24/2007 (3:18 am)
Blogs without screen shots is just unforgivable ;)There's only a few MMO's I've seen that go against the standard grind and level system. One been Eve-Online, which does "realtime" skill training, no matter whether you're playing or not, your skills will continue to train at x points per day. Although the grind in EVE can become one of money making rather than skill leveling. That said, the grind can be limited and removed altogether as you play the game longer and team up with others.
Another one is Tale in the Desert. Not played this one, but it sounds pretty unique with little emphasis on combat.
I'm sure there will be others I'm not aware of, I remember seeing one aimed at kids that can be used to look after their virtual pet (once they've bought the toy version and registered it). On the whole though, most MMO's seem to stick to the same formula that has been used for decades by MUDs.
#3
08/24/2007 (5:33 am)
This game is supposed to focus more on what you can do than leveling. Thats why my description is longer above on jobs than anything else, and i could have typed tons more but i think people would have stopped reading it. This game wants you to focus on one job and jump in the economy literally. I've never played a game where there are castle and towns and players are actually running them. I've also never played a game where those kingdoms can take control of other kingdoms and towns, or one that has jobs that rely on other jobs to get things done. I've never even heard of a game that allows you to be a pirate with other jobs like mentioned above, all games where you can be pirates, thats all you can be usually. Ive never heard of a game that you can have your own ship, either bought or built by a player, or your own house, bought or built by a player, or rented, or land from a kingdom to start your own house/village/town/kingdom. all that in one game, ive never seen either. If there is one, let me know, I'd seriously love to play it. thats the main reason im making this game, to play it. The whole team is. It's something we've never seen and would love to play. I'm not taking this as a response to critism, just figuring i should explain a little more, becuase i talked nothing about combat systems, until now ive said nothing of what the goal in the game is (which is definitly not level grinding, our team hates that more than anything, can we say ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh to half the games out there making it?), and really only just tipped into the game at all. BUT if this is what you think, keep it coming please, its your opinions damnit. :D
#4
Anyway, not to derail. Just wanted to provide some examples.
08/24/2007 (7:50 am)
EVE Online has all of those things you mentioned - just not in a scifi world with spaceships instead of fantasy. Age of Conan is promising many of the things you just mentioned along with siege warfare! But AoC is definitely combat based rather than economy based, as yours seems to be. Which is cool. I'd say that the original Star Wars Galaxies was similar in this respect too. Every weapon/item in the game was player crafted and the economy was total driven by the crafters. They had player housing and towns. It was pretty awesome, just lacked content.Anyway, not to derail. Just wanted to provide some examples.
#5
08/24/2007 (11:59 am)
LVL 225 = Unoriginal. Its GM lvl in wow, and in game would be boring to get to and... Yea... FFXI goes to 100 and that seems pretty boring to me.
#6
Try something different. Make an online game about becoming a mafia "capo di tutti capo" or something. Please!
08/24/2007 (1:21 pm)
Race = class = level = MEH.Try something different. Make an online game about becoming a mafia "capo di tutti capo" or something. Please!
#7
People didn't complain nearly this much in the day where FPS were the newest biggest thing and they were all pretty much the same. Because each one attempted to improve on some of the previous to make it better, then people played those and more came that were still a bit better etc. etc. With WoW making as much money as it is there's room in the market for more medievel mmos.
There has been plenty of sci fi mmos, space mmos etc etc WWII online (now called battlefield europe or something) tried to do a FPS mmo with realism, there was planetside which was an mmo fps. If you compare things to previous games you can always find one it's like in ways. There isn't ground breaking games coming out in any field of gaming.
As for the level complaint of neill, and being someone who truly enjoys online mmorpgs and played them from The Realm through UO EQ AC AO DAoC WoW EQ EQII etc etc. I can say the high level limit is nice, first off comparing it to a GM lvl is honestly idiotic since players can't acheive that. AC went to 120 or 125 I think and it was far better then the low and easy to get to lvl limit of WoW.
With WoW you literally (even with expansion) can hit max level in a month, while going to work everyday and having a life. That is ridiculous to max out in an online mmorpg that fast and = boring as hell. With AC I I was out of high school and waiting to go into the Navy so I had 3 months from when I quit my job to started my new one. I played AC constantly for 3 months straight and didn't get anywhere near the level limit, which meant I was always finding new things to do, new areas to see = interesting.
Now back to the actual guy posting. I would suggest making sure you completly plan out the player ruled kingdoms because a lot can go wrong there. And it will be tough to implement it all. Lineage II (which was a horrible game in pretty much every aspect) tried to do player owned cities where guilds win the city in a battle that's held each week, maybe they have it working now but it was a pretty crappy system originally, so make sure you have a solid plan for that. And good luck
08/24/2007 (3:04 pm)
If the guy wants to make that type or mmo that's his choice. Constructive criticism is good but just saying something is crap doesn't help. Why does everyone keep making similar mmos? because the design hasn't been perfected yet. People didn't complain nearly this much in the day where FPS were the newest biggest thing and they were all pretty much the same. Because each one attempted to improve on some of the previous to make it better, then people played those and more came that were still a bit better etc. etc. With WoW making as much money as it is there's room in the market for more medievel mmos.
There has been plenty of sci fi mmos, space mmos etc etc WWII online (now called battlefield europe or something) tried to do a FPS mmo with realism, there was planetside which was an mmo fps. If you compare things to previous games you can always find one it's like in ways. There isn't ground breaking games coming out in any field of gaming.
As for the level complaint of neill, and being someone who truly enjoys online mmorpgs and played them from The Realm through UO EQ AC AO DAoC WoW EQ EQII etc etc. I can say the high level limit is nice, first off comparing it to a GM lvl is honestly idiotic since players can't acheive that. AC went to 120 or 125 I think and it was far better then the low and easy to get to lvl limit of WoW.
With WoW you literally (even with expansion) can hit max level in a month, while going to work everyday and having a life. That is ridiculous to max out in an online mmorpg that fast and = boring as hell. With AC I I was out of high school and waiting to go into the Navy so I had 3 months from when I quit my job to started my new one. I played AC constantly for 3 months straight and didn't get anywhere near the level limit, which meant I was always finding new things to do, new areas to see = interesting.
Now back to the actual guy posting. I would suggest making sure you completly plan out the player ruled kingdoms because a lot can go wrong there. And it will be tough to implement it all. Lineage II (which was a horrible game in pretty much every aspect) tried to do player owned cities where guilds win the city in a battle that's held each week, maybe they have it working now but it was a pretty crappy system originally, so make sure you have a solid plan for that. And good luck
#8
08/27/2007 (9:43 pm)
thanks to everyone for the responses. to the only one who actually said something about my post. after i read your post J Sears i went and changed the kingdom system and branches of government to have checks to make sure people cant do idiotic things. I may post this in the next blog. The docs almost done though, so i may just post up the doc like i said soon. 
Torque 3D Owner Phil Carlisle
Why do people insist on sticking with the exact same template for MMO's? I mean look on youtube for MMO and you find a billion RPG based MMO's with level grinding, guilds etc.
Sheesh.
Sorry.