TGB Isometric Add-On Pack - Part 3
by Neo Binedell · 08/16/2006 (12:50 pm) · 17 comments
- TGB Iso Builder -
Continued from my previous blog post
Sheesh, it takes me dislocating my hip (don't ask) to find time to blog again.
I've been up to my ears in contract work (3 overlapping projects) and so have not had time
to update everyone as to the progress of the Iso Builder.
Rest assured it is still in the works and I've been sweating over it when ever I could steal some time.
I will post a more informative plan soon as I get another gap but in the mean time here is another
shot of the editor which has had an overhaul to cut down on the clicking. Everything for an element
can now be seen on one screen and I've overhauled the visual/orientation system to have 32 slots,
period. Which ones you use is up to you but it allows bypassing all the list crap as well as knowing
that the slots are always there if you need them, and 32 should be sufficient (the carrier in the pic
has 32 orientations and while been driving it up and down the map it looked super smooth).
I've also added element selection and will be adding pixel masks, etc to make it more accurate where
needed. Plus a ton of other stuff that I'll get into once I have some visual proof for you ;p
More once I dislocated something else to score some time...
~neo
#3
is the mac asset being developed in parallel?
with tgb 1.1.1 and the onset of the iso builder, it's getting easier out there for a programming pimp...
08/17/2006 (12:52 am)
i can't wait to give you money for this pack...but don't do too much damage to get it done. is the mac asset being developed in parallel?
with tgb 1.1.1 and the onset of the iso builder, it's getting easier out there for a programming pimp...
#5
As I mentioned in a previous plan there is no platform specific code in the Iso Builder so it
should run on anything that TGB runs on.
~neo
08/18/2006 (2:11 am)
@Anthony: As I mentioned in a previous plan there is no platform specific code in the Iso Builder so it
should run on anything that TGB runs on.
~neo
#6
Outstanding work btw :)
08/18/2006 (2:56 pm)
Please continue on this resource. I would definately pay for an Isometric engine that could possibly run on Torque X :)Outstanding work btw :)
#7
09/06/2006 (9:21 pm)
Man I am hanging out for this :)
#8
i just checked out this site: http://www.inet2inet.com/Main/Main.htm
it is for making isometric and 2d game maps. i haven't wrapped my head completely around the tech side of it yet so i figured i'd bug you for the answer, would i be able to import maps made from this app into tgb once you have implemented the iso engine?
hope the development is going well, and i hope you haven't injured yourself again.
09/08/2006 (5:54 pm)
hey neo,i just checked out this site: http://www.inet2inet.com/Main/Main.htm
it is for making isometric and 2d game maps. i haven't wrapped my head completely around the tech side of it yet so i figured i'd bug you for the answer, would i be able to import maps made from this app into tgb once you have implemented the iso engine?
hope the development is going well, and i hope you haven't injured yourself again.
#9
tiles, etc, which are just images and can be imported into TGB quite easily.
09/11/2006 (12:00 am)
Yeah I also have that app. I don't recall any 'map' per se, the app is more geared toward creatingtiles, etc, which are just images and can be imported into TGB quite easily.
#10
This is what the file looks like:
False
11070
9195
0
None
5
-----------------------------------
0
0
16
16777215
-----------------------------------
C:\dir\tile1.png
8421376
192
96
0
0
False
-----------------------------------
C:\dir\tile2.png
8421376
320
32
0
0
False
-----------------------------------
C:\dir\tile3.png
8421376
464
32
0
3
False
09/11/2006 (2:14 am)
The commercial version (2.5++) has a editor that allows you to build a level using the tiles directly from the program.This is what the file looks like:
False
11070
9195
0
None
5
-----------------------------------
0
0
16
16777215
-----------------------------------
C:\dir\tile1.png
8421376
192
96
0
0
False
-----------------------------------
C:\dir\tile2.png
8421376
320
32
0
0
False
-----------------------------------
C:\dir\tile3.png
8421376
464
32
0
3
False
#11
tile images anywhich way in 2D. Basically pasting images at arbirtrary coordinates. It would be rather trivial to
write an importer in Torque Script but useless for the Iso Builder as it works with tiles and a basic 3D space, and the tiles are not simply images but map elements with additional data, etc.
The whole reason the iso builder exists is that an isometric world/map is not just a normal 2D overlay of sprites but representing an essentially 3D world with depth, collision etc. World Creator does not allow for that, it just allows splatting, which was one of the major disappointments for me.
I am wrapping up some of my contract work and will take a month off to work on the Iso Builder full time once
they are done.
09/11/2006 (2:47 am)
Yeah I have the commercial version as well. What I mean is it is not really a map, just a placement oftile images anywhich way in 2D. Basically pasting images at arbirtrary coordinates. It would be rather trivial to
write an importer in Torque Script but useless for the Iso Builder as it works with tiles and a basic 3D space, and the tiles are not simply images but map elements with additional data, etc.
The whole reason the iso builder exists is that an isometric world/map is not just a normal 2D overlay of sprites but representing an essentially 3D world with depth, collision etc. World Creator does not allow for that, it just allows splatting, which was one of the major disappointments for me.
I am wrapping up some of my contract work and will take a month off to work on the Iso Builder full time once
they are done.
#12
I've been waiting for this to get done!
10/27/2006 (12:35 pm)
Hey, wondering if there is an update on this? I've been waiting for this to get done!
#13
Anyway I'm wondering about some features you might add at any time. Of course you've done so much and I see you're busy currently so don't mind my questions if they are asking too much! Also I'm not a programmer *at all* so my questions aren't backed by any knowledge of complex code mechanics (though Torque and recent events have given me incentive to start learning).
1. Will the maps be rotatable for four 90 degree angles? In other words if artists wanted to make 4 angles of each object and animation, would your pack be able to allow in-game map rotations at the press of a button? The isometric perspective wouldn't be fixed anymore. Spritec allowed this kind of option in their commercial engine "IsoWorld" http://www.spritec.com/legacy/isotech/isotech.html
2. In the "3d space" you are using, will that mean...objects can jump over each other?!
Now for the intensely "looked-down-upon" questions I've posted on gamedev.net:
3. How about voxel collisions? You posted images of 3d rectangular bounding boxes. What if there was a way to allow game builders the option to use voxel masks (if there is such a thing) instead of simply calculated shapes like rectangles, cubes, and cylinders?
My goal is to make an isometric game where tiles/objects aren't the "be all end all" of collision detection--in other words, for example a tile/object could have a tic-tac-toe-shaped wooden fence in it, and any object with a bounding box of 2x2x2 could crawl under or through the middle of the fence while a larger object would not be able to. Characters could climb over and under simple skinny tree branches, etc.
Given the fence example, as part of a single tile/object, I think it's very complex to do without making it a "voxelized" image.
If anyone has any questions about how this is even possible I only have a theory though. Computer power to process this dream of mine is a different matter I guess...eek.
4. How about, along the lines of the voxel collision, would there be a way to have objects cast drop shadows over other objects? Except, that instead of having the shadows bend around the rectangular bounding boxes, the shadows could bend around an invisible voxel mask of the image? They would conform to the image in a way that the artist designed in its voxel mask, so that the shadow looks like it is conforming to a 3d object even though it is really just a 2d sprite.
Welp, I can infer from the last post that you're probably busy right now and don't have time for these forums but I'll check back soon enough. Thanks a lot for giving isometric games the attention they deserve!
11/07/2006 (10:43 pm)
First of all Neo it's awesome that you actually say you have "fun" making this thing! Whew.Anyway I'm wondering about some features you might add at any time. Of course you've done so much and I see you're busy currently so don't mind my questions if they are asking too much! Also I'm not a programmer *at all* so my questions aren't backed by any knowledge of complex code mechanics (though Torque and recent events have given me incentive to start learning).
1. Will the maps be rotatable for four 90 degree angles? In other words if artists wanted to make 4 angles of each object and animation, would your pack be able to allow in-game map rotations at the press of a button? The isometric perspective wouldn't be fixed anymore. Spritec allowed this kind of option in their commercial engine "IsoWorld" http://www.spritec.com/legacy/isotech/isotech.html
2. In the "3d space" you are using, will that mean...objects can jump over each other?!
Now for the intensely "looked-down-upon" questions I've posted on gamedev.net:
3. How about voxel collisions? You posted images of 3d rectangular bounding boxes. What if there was a way to allow game builders the option to use voxel masks (if there is such a thing) instead of simply calculated shapes like rectangles, cubes, and cylinders?
My goal is to make an isometric game where tiles/objects aren't the "be all end all" of collision detection--in other words, for example a tile/object could have a tic-tac-toe-shaped wooden fence in it, and any object with a bounding box of 2x2x2 could crawl under or through the middle of the fence while a larger object would not be able to. Characters could climb over and under simple skinny tree branches, etc.
Given the fence example, as part of a single tile/object, I think it's very complex to do without making it a "voxelized" image.
If anyone has any questions about how this is even possible I only have a theory though. Computer power to process this dream of mine is a different matter I guess...eek.
4. How about, along the lines of the voxel collision, would there be a way to have objects cast drop shadows over other objects? Except, that instead of having the shadows bend around the rectangular bounding boxes, the shadows could bend around an invisible voxel mask of the image? They would conform to the image in a way that the artist designed in its voxel mask, so that the shadow looks like it is conforming to a 3d object even though it is really just a 2d sprite.
Welp, I can infer from the last post that you're probably busy right now and don't have time for these forums but I'll check back soon enough. Thanks a lot for giving isometric games the attention they deserve!
#14
I've just finished another project today so will be able to spend more time on the Iso Builder so I'll
just answer you questions in brief.
1. Pretty much all the implementations I've seen with 90 degree rotating maps looked pretty weird and
left me disorientated. It also forces you to have multi-angle renders of each and every map item/tile
for what I feel is very little benefit. I might consider it later if there is enough of a request for it but
it would be pretty low on my priority list.
2. Yes, things will be able to move over and under each other, etc.
3. Currently I am playing with different ideas for micro collision/blocking and one of which is having each cell have say a 5x5 sub grid (or even triangulated) which can be marked as blocking or not, with perhaps the extension of having heights per sub cell, etc. I would not bother with full psuedo-voxel spaces as there would be no way of drawing say a donut with and item moving through it as there is no draw order that would render that correctly. I started playing with ideas for this for things like bridges where you would
want to be able to move over and under depending on which height or level you were approaching it from, etc.
4. I've tried to stay away from over-engineering the whole thing and custom pre-built shadow sprites will always look better. I keep reminding myself that if I keep adding to many things it will turn into TGE and
not a 2.5D iso engine ;p
The most important thing at the moment to me is to make it as user friendly an uncomplicated as possible
and I have removed a lot of stuff and I am re-engineering a lot of other things to conform to that rule.
Until my next blog...
11/08/2006 (9:56 am)
@Joe:I've just finished another project today so will be able to spend more time on the Iso Builder so I'll
just answer you questions in brief.
1. Pretty much all the implementations I've seen with 90 degree rotating maps looked pretty weird and
left me disorientated. It also forces you to have multi-angle renders of each and every map item/tile
for what I feel is very little benefit. I might consider it later if there is enough of a request for it but
it would be pretty low on my priority list.
2. Yes, things will be able to move over and under each other, etc.
3. Currently I am playing with different ideas for micro collision/blocking and one of which is having each cell have say a 5x5 sub grid (or even triangulated) which can be marked as blocking or not, with perhaps the extension of having heights per sub cell, etc. I would not bother with full psuedo-voxel spaces as there would be no way of drawing say a donut with and item moving through it as there is no draw order that would render that correctly. I started playing with ideas for this for things like bridges where you would
want to be able to move over and under depending on which height or level you were approaching it from, etc.
4. I've tried to stay away from over-engineering the whole thing and custom pre-built shadow sprites will always look better. I keep reminding myself that if I keep adding to many things it will turn into TGE and
not a 2.5D iso engine ;p
The most important thing at the moment to me is to make it as user friendly an uncomplicated as possible
and I have removed a lot of stuff and I am re-engineering a lot of other things to conform to that rule.
Until my next blog...
#15
I might ask another question about the shadow thing but thanks so far Neo!
11/08/2006 (12:29 pm)
Hey very cool! "Micro collisions"...cooooool!I might ask another question about the shadow thing but thanks so far Neo!
#16
11/22/2006 (10:42 am)
Man I'm still so wanting this! TGB is great and this will make it better! 
Torque Owner Ben Ewing