TGEA and T3D in Linux
by Jesse Liles · 07/14/2009 (10:37 pm) · 29 comments
I have been working with TGEA in the vague attempt to get Veks running in a shaderized engine. After spending quite some time getting it to work, the thought that had been nagging in my brain refused to be pushed aside.
"What about the Linux dedicated server? What about Linux gamers?"
I decided to return development to TGE primarily for these reasons. The graphics may not be on the same level, I may not have shaders, I may even lose some potential customers because the 'eye candy' just isn't what it could be. You know what? I just don't feel like those are good enough reasons to abandon Linux. The fact is that I love Linux. I have enjoyed working with it since the first time I installed Slackware 2.0. I love using it and I love the freedom of it.
I absolutely understand the reasons that GarageGames has given us regarding the cessation of Linux support in their game engines. We as the community have been passed the gauntlet of building and supporting the Linux versions of the awesome Torque family of game engines. As yet, it hasn't happened. I've seen some passing mention of people making TGEA work as a dedicated server in Linux, but they haven't (as far as I am aware) ever shared the code with the rest of us. I've seen many people suggesting that it shouldn't be too hard to take the Mac platform code from TGEA and port it for Linux. And mostly I've seen a lot of people talking. Nobody has taken action. I'm just as guilty as everybody else in this respect. I haven't ported the engine, and I don't have any idea of where to start. This brings me to my point. There are members of this community who have the skills to accomplish porting TGEA and T3D to Linux. Perhaps even GarageGames has employees that would be capable of this, if it were financially feasible. These individuals may have even begun some initial forays into accomplishing this goal for their own purposes. I understand that without being financially compensated, these select individuals may not have the motivation to complete such a project in their own time and selflessly donate the results to the community. So how much money do they want, to accomplish this goal? How much money are we, as a community of developers, willing to contribute to this cause?
I'm not trying to flame anybody here, and I'm not trying to build any negative sentiment, I just feel like we as a community, those of us who want to develop games for Linux as well as for Mac and Windows, need to come together if we want to accomplish that goal. If anybody has a constructive suggestion for getting this done, getting this code to the community, I'd very much like to hear about it.
"What about the Linux dedicated server? What about Linux gamers?"
I decided to return development to TGE primarily for these reasons. The graphics may not be on the same level, I may not have shaders, I may even lose some potential customers because the 'eye candy' just isn't what it could be. You know what? I just don't feel like those are good enough reasons to abandon Linux. The fact is that I love Linux. I have enjoyed working with it since the first time I installed Slackware 2.0. I love using it and I love the freedom of it.
I absolutely understand the reasons that GarageGames has given us regarding the cessation of Linux support in their game engines. We as the community have been passed the gauntlet of building and supporting the Linux versions of the awesome Torque family of game engines. As yet, it hasn't happened. I've seen some passing mention of people making TGEA work as a dedicated server in Linux, but they haven't (as far as I am aware) ever shared the code with the rest of us. I've seen many people suggesting that it shouldn't be too hard to take the Mac platform code from TGEA and port it for Linux. And mostly I've seen a lot of people talking. Nobody has taken action. I'm just as guilty as everybody else in this respect. I haven't ported the engine, and I don't have any idea of where to start. This brings me to my point. There are members of this community who have the skills to accomplish porting TGEA and T3D to Linux. Perhaps even GarageGames has employees that would be capable of this, if it were financially feasible. These individuals may have even begun some initial forays into accomplishing this goal for their own purposes. I understand that without being financially compensated, these select individuals may not have the motivation to complete such a project in their own time and selflessly donate the results to the community. So how much money do they want, to accomplish this goal? How much money are we, as a community of developers, willing to contribute to this cause?
I'm not trying to flame anybody here, and I'm not trying to build any negative sentiment, I just feel like we as a community, those of us who want to develop games for Linux as well as for Mac and Windows, need to come together if we want to accomplish that goal. If anybody has a constructive suggestion for getting this done, getting this code to the community, I'd very much like to hear about it.
About the author
#22
02/03/2010 (8:49 pm)
@Brian - Much luck with talking to your school. Absolutely refer them to contact our educational and licensing department. We specialize in pushing Torque as a curriculum, and getting schools with existing licenses to upgrade. 
#23
I'd like to see a native linux TGEA port too (-:
I'm not sure if xlib is the way to go, SDL looks far more promising to me,
which is x-platform for most *NIX systems, win32 and Mac OS ( last time I checked )
did you GG folks consider using a cross-platform framework for GUI elements like Qt(troll.no)? - it's a proven platform for win/mac osx/*nix and even embedded/mobile platforms.
( and real fun to use, even in vc9 (: )
I'm not sure if a native linux port is feasible - haven't looked too deeply into the issue, being more of a hobbyist game developer and having too few spare time ATM.
couple of years ago, I ported most of the HL SDK to linux(SDL/OpenGL), out of boredom and because Valve said it wasn't feasible/possible.
Took me the better part of a weekend and some parts were a real b*tch.
to rephrase my initial question. has there been a (significant) progress in porting TGEA/TGB and it's successors?
kind regards
stk
edit: damn typos (-:
03/18/2010 (2:03 pm)
hi,I'd like to see a native linux TGEA port too (-:
I'm not sure if xlib is the way to go, SDL looks far more promising to me,
which is x-platform for most *NIX systems, win32 and Mac OS ( last time I checked )
did you GG folks consider using a cross-platform framework for GUI elements like Qt(troll.no)? - it's a proven platform for win/mac osx/*nix and even embedded/mobile platforms.
( and real fun to use, even in vc9 (: )
I'm not sure if a native linux port is feasible - haven't looked too deeply into the issue, being more of a hobbyist game developer and having too few spare time ATM.
couple of years ago, I ported most of the HL SDK to linux(SDL/OpenGL), out of boredom and because Valve said it wasn't feasible/possible.
Took me the better part of a weekend and some parts were a real b*tch.
to rephrase my initial question. has there been a (significant) progress in porting TGEA/TGB and it's successors?
kind regards
stk
edit: damn typos (-:
#24
TorquePowered has no plans to port any of our client-side products to Linux. There is not nearly enough money to be made in that space to justify further fragmentation and complexity to our product line.
03/18/2010 (2:13 pm)
We've stated it a number of times but I guess it doesn't hurt to say it again.TorquePowered has no plans to port any of our client-side products to Linux. There is not nearly enough money to be made in that space to justify further fragmentation and complexity to our product line.
#25
my post wasn't meant to ask for an "offical" port but just about the current state of affairs regarding a "community supported" linux port as mentioned in several (other) blogs/forum posts
kind regards
Stefan
03/18/2010 (2:29 pm)
just to clarify a thing or two:my post wasn't meant to ask for an "offical" port but just about the current state of affairs regarding a "community supported" linux port as mentioned in several (other) blogs/forum posts
kind regards
Stefan
#26
In that time period there has been virtually no tangible progress. In fact, TorquePowered has done more to move things closer to a Linux port with our efforts in getting an OpenGL GFX layer running and some lightweight work done by an intern towards allowing a dedicated Linux server for Torque 3D).
If we are ever presented with a clean and working Linux port we would be more than willing to talk about a revenue sharing deal that would allow a Linux version to be sold and to make money for the developers.
There is still some interest internally for a graphics-less dedicated server on Linux but it is at least a year or more out in our priority stack.
03/18/2010 (2:41 pm)
The Torque community has had official blessing to work on a Linux port of our various products ever since we dropped support 5 years ago as long as it is done within the very reasonable limitations of our EULA (i.e. source code shouldn't be shared with anyone who doesn't have a license).In that time period there has been virtually no tangible progress. In fact, TorquePowered has done more to move things closer to a Linux port with our efforts in getting an OpenGL GFX layer running and some lightweight work done by an intern towards allowing a dedicated Linux server for Torque 3D).
If we are ever presented with a clean and working Linux port we would be more than willing to talk about a revenue sharing deal that would allow a Linux version to be sold and to make money for the developers.
There is still some interest internally for a graphics-less dedicated server on Linux but it is at least a year or more out in our priority stack.
#27
03/18/2010 (3:53 pm)
Really? I didn't know that Garage Games was willing to profit share with people that develop a linux version. I may want to do that. What do I need to do to get the licence to develop this API?
#28
From there, it is just a matter of doing the port (remember it has to be clean...which means leveraging the Project Generator properly) and approaching us with it.
To be clear...the profit sharing would be on a Linux specific product and not on Torque 3D in general. So you would only be getting a percentage of the sales of people who buy Linux version of Torque 3D directly.
03/18/2010 (4:16 pm)
You would need to buy a Torque 3D Pro license. If you use the GDC2010 discount Eric mentioned in his blog (www.torquepowered.com/community/blogs/view/19477), I believe you can get Torque 3D Pro for $500 off.From there, it is just a matter of doing the port (remember it has to be clean...which means leveraging the Project Generator properly) and approaching us with it.
To be clear...the profit sharing would be on a Linux specific product and not on Torque 3D in general. So you would only be getting a percentage of the sales of people who buy Linux version of Torque 3D directly.
#29
03/18/2010 (4:43 pm)
Wow, okay. That sounds like a good idea to me. When I can get a copy of the licence, I will definitely look into porting. I think this profit sharing idea is a good idea and is more than fair. 
Torque Owner Brian Perry
Developing T3D would sound like a nice idea to work on while I'm in school. Maybe it can be my master's project. Who knows. Maybe if I can convince my school to get a pro licence, I can check it out and start porting it. It doesn't sound like it would be hard to port considering Torque just seems to abstract openGL. I was just suggesting that some of the pros should get organized and try to push something out that has Linux support. Still it would be nice if GG used an open source model for their engine like Google is using for O3D. Making the source code so expensive is prohibitive to small startups like mine. If I'm correct then the pro licence is around $800 dollars? That's a lot of money for something I have to make work myself.