Torque's 2D and 3D Future Vol. 2
by Brett Seyler · 11/18/2008 (6:01 am) · 76 comments
Since my last post on this subject in March, our Torque engine developers have been quietly toiling away on some major new stuff. The major focus? TGEA. While we've also spent some serious cycles on Torque X (the impressive results of which you'll be seeing soon) and on TGB (which you'll probably start hearing about toward the end of the year), probably 80% of the energy has gone to TGEA, and it's definitely starting to bear fruit.
There are many of you out there who started with TGE and have yet to make the jump to TGEA. Some of you will be asking "why TGEA and not TGE?" That's going to be the main focus of this post. I'm going to talk about what you'll be seeing from TGEA in the coming weeks and months, and why you're not likely to see an update to TGE soon, or perhaps every again. Don't panic yet. Keep reading...
While there were good reasons OpenGL support did not make it in TGEA 1.0, it's here now with vastly better performance than ever possible before thanks to the new Brian Richardson and Alex Scarborough powered graphic layer (GFX2). You can see the early fruits of Alex's efforts porting Rokkitball and Legions to the Mac for InstantAction below.
Rokkitball and Fallen Empire: Legions running in Safari on OSX
Did we mention that TGEA 1.8 is a FREE update for all TGEA owners? You can grab the beta release by hitting your My Account page right now.
What About TGE?
We've kicked this idea around a lot here in the office and so have you in the forums and in the comments on my previous blog. Why aren't we working on TGE? There are a number of reasons that matter to us, but I really want to approach this from your perspective. I want to take a hard look at the reasons people have, in the past, chosen TGE over TGEA.
Reason #1: TGE has better documentation. While this was true when TGEA 1.0 originally launched back in February 2007, it's certainly not anymore. TGEA documentation has gotten the Mich Perry treatment. It's now probably the most well-documented engine out there with mountains of resouces and a well organized set of reference and learning materials. See the proof for yourselves.
Mich's docs blogs:
* What do you think about Documentation?
* MAJOR Documentation Announcement 1
* New Documentation System
* Documentation Announcements
* September Documentation Wrap Up
* October Documentation Wrap Up
Reason #2: TGE has better resources. More resources? Yes. Better resources? Not anymore. TGEA is where all the latest, coolest stuff is happening, and some Torque developers are defintiely taking it by the horns and doing some really cool stuff. There are also a bunch of great add-ons for TGEA and many many more in the works. Case in point: Konrad Kiss. His Cliff Construction Kit makes gorgeous, detailed environments much easier to do. There's also Lorne McIntosh's SSAO (screen space ambient occlusion), and Apparatus' Beautiful Doors.
Reason #3: TGE has better stability. This is also no longer true. While TGEA pre-1.7 didn't match TGE's stability, the 1.7 and 1.7.1 release did. It may take a while for TGEA to match TGE's stability on the Mac, but it will get there. On the PC, it's no longer an issue.
Reason #4: TGE can run on OSX with OpenGL. Now so can TGEA, only it runs the same projects faster.
So with TGEA we now have...
The first thing I want to say is this: I'm thrilled we got here. With TGEA 1.8, we're out of reasons to look back and we'll be looking to the future from here with continued improvements to TGEA. It was not without great effort. TGEA is now is a much better product for game developers than TGE. If you're part of the Torque community, TGEA is where all the new development will be happening. TGEA is where the majority of new resources and 3rd party products will be born. And the best part of this for TGE owners is, we've taken great care to make sure that TGE projects are very portable to TGEA.
I'm encouraging those that haven't made the move to consider it. Having all hands on the same codebase benefits our development internally, but it also has huge benefits you guys. It means you'll have more compatible resources, and you'll have better, faster, more accurate answers to your technical questions because everyone's looking the same code.
There are real, tangible advantages for your project as well. In addition to all the hallmark strengths of Torque like world class networking and real-time world editing, with TGEA you have...
To us, it's a clear choice. You'll notice that we've taken this new embrace of Torque's future to heart with some recent changes to the website too. If you're a new user looking for an engine and want to make a 3D game, you'll end up on the TGEA landing page in just one click.
Getting to TGE is a tad tougher, but of course it's still there.
At some point, TGE will likely either go away, or be licensed in a different way. We could do something like the id does with the older Quake engines offering both GPL and closed source. We could simply leave it on the site as a less expensive option. To be honest, we haven't decided and we won't be doing anything about it right away.
This is a decision that I really would like some community feedback on. I know many of you have been working with TGE for years and really love it. We don't want to do anything that discourages it's continued use, but for new and advanced users alike, TGEA is now a better product, so we want to put it out front where we can focus on making it even better.
If TGE is going away soon, doesn't the name "TGEA" seem a little dumb?
Yes =) We are some gigantic dunces at this whole "naming" and "marketing" thing, but I see no reason to live with our mistakes or repeat them in the future. At some point, we'll look to simplify our products down to basics. It could look something like:
TGEA --> Torque 3D
and
TGB --> Torque 2D (duh...didn't we do that once already?)
So, none of that is happening *right* now, but likely happen in the future.
Okay Cool. So What's Next?
First off, to quickly review the stuff I've covered so far...
* TGEA 1.8 is in beta and adds an OpenGL graphics implementation and runs on OSX.
* At some point TGEA will replace TGE entirely and may be renamed to something more...concise.
Alright, alright! What's next? Good question...
The next version of Torque for 3D games
If you're still looking for another reason to make the leap to TGEA, pay attention. Remember all that stuff mentioned in my last blog under R&D? Well, back in March, there were dozens of things I wasn't ready to mention and quite a few that we'll be able to confirm as part of our next Torque release. The GG Studios team and many 3rd party developers we work with are already hands on with some of the coolest new R&D tech around. While the game studio is proving this new tech out with games you'll see on InstantAction and consoles over the next year, we're merging it with TGEA to be included in our next release.
Finally, Some "Thank Yous"
Maintaining and improving Torque is an incredible amount of work, so I want to recognize some of the people who've been HUGELY helpful in this last round of development, and generally moving the Torque experience in a positive direction, either by generously providing community resources, contributing directly to development, or providing really nice add-ons that help make Torque shine.
1. The entire Sickhead Games crew (Tom Spilman, Russell Fincher, Ross Pawley, and James Ford). These guys are to thank for a ton of what goes on behind the scenes in Torque development and even more of what you're about to see in the future. Their products, Torsion especially, make Torque much easier and much more fun to work with. They are a truly independent studio and they're bound for success.
2. John Kabus. John's continued support for the entire Torque product lineup has been a huge value add. He's been working on a lot of cool stuff that you guys will be psyched to see in the future too, so John definitely deserves a big thanks.
3. John Kanalakis. Remember when I mentioned that you'd be seeing some really new and impressive Torque X stuff? You have John to thank. John spearheaded our last round of development on Torque X both by updating it to XNA Game Studio 3.0 and he added his own suite of 3D editing tools. Now you can use WYSIWG tools to design your scene, assign components, and even write new ones right inside the editor. It's hot stuff and it's not been easy, so thank you, John. You're a superhero.
4. Melv May and Phillip O'Shea. Melv and Phillip are currently hard at work on some super-top-secret 2D engine stuff. When the next version of Torque's 2D engine tech ships, you'll have them to thank for most of its coolness.
5. Jeff Faust. Jeff never stops improving his fabulous AFX technology. He recently updated it to include TGEA support and more awesome effects. Word has it he's planning a big release in the next few months that will impress us all. I have no doubts about that. Keep it up, Jeff!
6. Rene Damm. Rene's another guy who's been absolutely killer behind the scenes helping with TGEA. He's tackled Atlas Terrain issues that frighten the best of us and his current plans include some really cool ways to leverage that core tech. We're all really looking forward to seeing what will happen when the final stuff emerges.
7. Laurentiu Danila a.k.a. "Apparatus". Does this guy ever sleep? Doors, bridges, props, textures, environments...KABOOM!. Talk about making Torque shine! Great job, Apparatus. Can't wait to see what you do next.
AND THAT'S A WRAP!
If you made it this far in the longest blog ever, congrats! I hope it was worth reading. Thanks!
...................................................................................................
Another Pre-emptive Q&A (with myself)
Q. What? No more TGE?
A. TGE is not gone yet and it's not going to disappear tomorrow, next week, or even next month. Next year? Possibly. There are no longer any technical reasons to choose TGE over TGEA, so we're going to focus our development efforts there. If you're concerned about the price, I wouldn't worry. We're going to find a way to make Torque technology as accessible on a budget as it can be. TGE resources and documentation aren't going to disappear either. They'll always be available, they may just become less relevant.
Q. Which of these releases will GG charge for?
A. TGEA 1.8 will be a free update. The next version of our 3D tech after that will be a paid update. The next version of our 2D tech will probably be a paid update. It's been almost 2 years since we charged for any version of TGEA and almost 4 years since we charge for any version of TGB. That's a pretty generous track record. At some point, we're going to have to feed the developers but as always, if we do charge for an update, you'll get more *way* more than your money's worth.
Q. When will we see OpenGL support in TGEA?
A. In TGEA 1.8! It's in open beta now! Pull it down. Put the hammer to it. Let us know what needs fixing.
There are many of you out there who started with TGE and have yet to make the jump to TGEA. Some of you will be asking "why TGEA and not TGE?" That's going to be the main focus of this post. I'm going to talk about what you'll be seeing from TGEA in the coming weeks and months, and why you're not likely to see an update to TGE soon, or perhaps every again. Don't panic yet. Keep reading...
While there were good reasons OpenGL support did not make it in TGEA 1.0, it's here now with vastly better performance than ever possible before thanks to the new Brian Richardson and Alex Scarborough powered graphic layer (GFX2). You can see the early fruits of Alex's efforts porting Rokkitball and Legions to the Mac for InstantAction below.
Rokkitball and Fallen Empire: Legions running in Safari on OSX
Did we mention that TGEA 1.8 is a FREE update for all TGEA owners? You can grab the beta release by hitting your My Account page right now.
What About TGE?
We've kicked this idea around a lot here in the office and so have you in the forums and in the comments on my previous blog. Why aren't we working on TGE? There are a number of reasons that matter to us, but I really want to approach this from your perspective. I want to take a hard look at the reasons people have, in the past, chosen TGE over TGEA.
Reason #1: TGE has better documentation. While this was true when TGEA 1.0 originally launched back in February 2007, it's certainly not anymore. TGEA documentation has gotten the Mich Perry treatment. It's now probably the most well-documented engine out there with mountains of resouces and a well organized set of reference and learning materials. See the proof for yourselves.
Mich's docs blogs:
* What do you think about Documentation?
* MAJOR Documentation Announcement 1
* New Documentation System
* Documentation Announcements
* September Documentation Wrap Up
* October Documentation Wrap Up
Reason #2: TGE has better resources. More resources? Yes. Better resources? Not anymore. TGEA is where all the latest, coolest stuff is happening, and some Torque developers are defintiely taking it by the horns and doing some really cool stuff. There are also a bunch of great add-ons for TGEA and many many more in the works. Case in point: Konrad Kiss. His Cliff Construction Kit makes gorgeous, detailed environments much easier to do. There's also Lorne McIntosh's SSAO (screen space ambient occlusion), and Apparatus' Beautiful Doors.
Reason #3: TGE has better stability. This is also no longer true. While TGEA pre-1.7 didn't match TGE's stability, the 1.7 and 1.7.1 release did. It may take a while for TGEA to match TGE's stability on the Mac, but it will get there. On the PC, it's no longer an issue.
Reason #4: TGE can run on OSX with OpenGL. Now so can TGEA, only it runs the same projects faster.
So with TGEA we now have...
The first thing I want to say is this: I'm thrilled we got here. With TGEA 1.8, we're out of reasons to look back and we'll be looking to the future from here with continued improvements to TGEA. It was not without great effort. TGEA is now is a much better product for game developers than TGE. If you're part of the Torque community, TGEA is where all the new development will be happening. TGEA is where the majority of new resources and 3rd party products will be born. And the best part of this for TGE owners is, we've taken great care to make sure that TGE projects are very portable to TGEA.
I'm encouraging those that haven't made the move to consider it. Having all hands on the same codebase benefits our development internally, but it also has huge benefits you guys. It means you'll have more compatible resources, and you'll have better, faster, more accurate answers to your technical questions because everyone's looking the same code.
There are real, tangible advantages for your project as well. In addition to all the hallmark strengths of Torque like world class networking and real-time world editing, with TGEA you have...
To us, it's a clear choice. You'll notice that we've taken this new embrace of Torque's future to heart with some recent changes to the website too. If you're a new user looking for an engine and want to make a 3D game, you'll end up on the TGEA landing page in just one click.
Getting to TGE is a tad tougher, but of course it's still there.
At some point, TGE will likely either go away, or be licensed in a different way. We could do something like the id does with the older Quake engines offering both GPL and closed source. We could simply leave it on the site as a less expensive option. To be honest, we haven't decided and we won't be doing anything about it right away.
This is a decision that I really would like some community feedback on. I know many of you have been working with TGE for years and really love it. We don't want to do anything that discourages it's continued use, but for new and advanced users alike, TGEA is now a better product, so we want to put it out front where we can focus on making it even better.
If TGE is going away soon, doesn't the name "TGEA" seem a little dumb?
Yes =) We are some gigantic dunces at this whole "naming" and "marketing" thing, but I see no reason to live with our mistakes or repeat them in the future. At some point, we'll look to simplify our products down to basics. It could look something like:
TGEA --> Torque 3D
and
TGB --> Torque 2D (duh...didn't we do that once already?)
So, none of that is happening *right* now, but likely happen in the future.
Okay Cool. So What's Next?
First off, to quickly review the stuff I've covered so far...
* TGEA 1.8 is in beta and adds an OpenGL graphics implementation and runs on OSX.
* At some point TGEA will replace TGE entirely and may be renamed to something more...concise.
Alright, alright! What's next? Good question...
The next version of Torque for 3D games
If you're still looking for another reason to make the leap to TGEA, pay attention. Remember all that stuff mentioned in my last blog under R&D? Well, back in March, there were dozens of things I wasn't ready to mention and quite a few that we'll be able to confirm as part of our next Torque release. The GG Studios team and many 3rd party developers we work with are already hands on with some of the coolest new R&D tech around. While the game studio is proving this new tech out with games you'll see on InstantAction and consoles over the next year, we're merging it with TGEA to be included in our next release.
Finally, Some "Thank Yous"
Maintaining and improving Torque is an incredible amount of work, so I want to recognize some of the people who've been HUGELY helpful in this last round of development, and generally moving the Torque experience in a positive direction, either by generously providing community resources, contributing directly to development, or providing really nice add-ons that help make Torque shine.
1. The entire Sickhead Games crew (Tom Spilman, Russell Fincher, Ross Pawley, and James Ford). These guys are to thank for a ton of what goes on behind the scenes in Torque development and even more of what you're about to see in the future. Their products, Torsion especially, make Torque much easier and much more fun to work with. They are a truly independent studio and they're bound for success.
2. John Kabus. John's continued support for the entire Torque product lineup has been a huge value add. He's been working on a lot of cool stuff that you guys will be psyched to see in the future too, so John definitely deserves a big thanks.
3. John Kanalakis. Remember when I mentioned that you'd be seeing some really new and impressive Torque X stuff? You have John to thank. John spearheaded our last round of development on Torque X both by updating it to XNA Game Studio 3.0 and he added his own suite of 3D editing tools. Now you can use WYSIWG tools to design your scene, assign components, and even write new ones right inside the editor. It's hot stuff and it's not been easy, so thank you, John. You're a superhero.
4. Melv May and Phillip O'Shea. Melv and Phillip are currently hard at work on some super-top-secret 2D engine stuff. When the next version of Torque's 2D engine tech ships, you'll have them to thank for most of its coolness.
5. Jeff Faust. Jeff never stops improving his fabulous AFX technology. He recently updated it to include TGEA support and more awesome effects. Word has it he's planning a big release in the next few months that will impress us all. I have no doubts about that. Keep it up, Jeff!
6. Rene Damm. Rene's another guy who's been absolutely killer behind the scenes helping with TGEA. He's tackled Atlas Terrain issues that frighten the best of us and his current plans include some really cool ways to leverage that core tech. We're all really looking forward to seeing what will happen when the final stuff emerges.
7. Laurentiu Danila a.k.a. "Apparatus". Does this guy ever sleep? Doors, bridges, props, textures, environments...KABOOM!. Talk about making Torque shine! Great job, Apparatus. Can't wait to see what you do next.
AND THAT'S A WRAP!
If you made it this far in the longest blog ever, congrats! I hope it was worth reading. Thanks!
...................................................................................................
Another Pre-emptive Q&A (with myself)
Q. What? No more TGE?
A. TGE is not gone yet and it's not going to disappear tomorrow, next week, or even next month. Next year? Possibly. There are no longer any technical reasons to choose TGE over TGEA, so we're going to focus our development efforts there. If you're concerned about the price, I wouldn't worry. We're going to find a way to make Torque technology as accessible on a budget as it can be. TGE resources and documentation aren't going to disappear either. They'll always be available, they may just become less relevant.
Q. Which of these releases will GG charge for?
A. TGEA 1.8 will be a free update. The next version of our 3D tech after that will be a paid update. The next version of our 2D tech will probably be a paid update. It's been almost 2 years since we charged for any version of TGEA and almost 4 years since we charge for any version of TGB. That's a pretty generous track record. At some point, we're going to have to feed the developers but as always, if we do charge for an update, you'll get more *way* more than your money's worth.
Q. When will we see OpenGL support in TGEA?
A. In TGEA 1.8! It's in open beta now! Pull it down. Put the hammer to it. Let us know what needs fixing.
About the author
Since 2007, I've done my best to steer Torque's development and brand toward the best opportunities in games middleware.
#62
11/19/2008 (11:26 pm)
Will it be easy again to blend together Torque 3d and Torque 2d? Using T2D for guis in T3D would be awesome. 
#63
Is there a transcript available of the IRC Meeting yesterday?
11/21/2008 (2:35 am)
@Michael Perry:Is there a transcript available of the IRC Meeting yesterday?
#64
11/21/2008 (8:27 am)
I would also like to know about a transcript for the IRC Meeting. 
#66
--Amr
11/22/2008 (4:25 am)
Well, I'm glad that I have a license to both engines - now's probably a good time to port my game so far to TGEA.--Amr
#67
12/02/2008 (7:30 pm)
Maybe make TGE available at no cost for non commercial use and the commercial license the old indie cost for those doing for profit games?
#68
12/04/2008 (2:40 pm)
Lightwave exporter and support, or are we finally done with garage games? 
#70
I like to play with tge, is a hobby for me, I would like to upgrade to TGEA 1.7, but I have no money ($145.00 USD). There is some possibility to upgrade to a "hobby license"(allowing only publish my game for free). I don't need Indie License.
I bought some products and I have a lot of fun with them :-).
my list of products:
-GG Studios: Enviroment Pack
-GG Studios: Environment Pack 2
-BraveTree: Car Pack Pro
-BraveTree: Girl Pack
-BraveTree: Jet Bike Pack Pro
-BraveTree: Tank Pack
-BraveTree: War Sparrow Pack Pro
-Chris Calef: Ragdoll Animation Pack
-Synapse Gaming: Lighting Pack for TGE
-Torque Constructor
-Torque Game Engine 1.4.2 - INDIE License
-Torque Game Engine 1.5 - upgrade from TLK - INDIE
-Torque ShowTool Pro (TGE 1.5 Indie Bundle)
-Torque X 3D Open Beta
-Tridinaut: Soldier Pack
-Zap!
Thx GG
Francisco
12/04/2008 (6:18 pm)
My Case :I like to play with tge, is a hobby for me, I would like to upgrade to TGEA 1.7, but I have no money ($145.00 USD). There is some possibility to upgrade to a "hobby license"(allowing only publish my game for free). I don't need Indie License.
I bought some products and I have a lot of fun with them :-).
my list of products:
-GG Studios: Enviroment Pack
-GG Studios: Environment Pack 2
-BraveTree: Car Pack Pro
-BraveTree: Girl Pack
-BraveTree: Jet Bike Pack Pro
-BraveTree: Tank Pack
-BraveTree: War Sparrow Pack Pro
-Chris Calef: Ragdoll Animation Pack
-Synapse Gaming: Lighting Pack for TGE
-Torque Constructor
-Torque Game Engine 1.4.2 - INDIE License
-Torque Game Engine 1.5 - upgrade from TLK - INDIE
-Torque ShowTool Pro (TGE 1.5 Indie Bundle)
-Torque X 3D Open Beta
-Tridinaut: Soldier Pack
-Zap!
Thx GG
Francisco
#71
You know Gnometech?
www.gnometech.com/lwdtsmain.shtml
@Garagegames:
If you play with the idea to import fbx and/or dae (collada) directly in the mission editor... don't do that !!!!!
I think each engine has different internal requirements. So it would be better to let the DTS-Format the only mesh-format in Torque. Instead of... modify ShowToolPro and implement the import of fbx, collada,x...
The developer can now modify and export the file to DTS.
Also the possibility to append normal- and specmaps and the automatic creation of materials.cs would be a real improvement.
Keyword Collision: Implement the possibility to respond to animated collision meshes.
I dont have TGEA. Only TGE.
It is hard to say... sorry... but at the moment i don't see a reason FOR ME to switch to TGEA.
12/05/2008 (12:44 am)
@Allyn & RussellYou know Gnometech?
www.gnometech.com/lwdtsmain.shtml
@Garagegames:
If you play with the idea to import fbx and/or dae (collada) directly in the mission editor... don't do that !!!!!
I think each engine has different internal requirements. So it would be better to let the DTS-Format the only mesh-format in Torque. Instead of... modify ShowToolPro and implement the import of fbx, collada,x...
The developer can now modify and export the file to DTS.
Also the possibility to append normal- and specmaps and the automatic creation of materials.cs would be a real improvement.
Keyword Collision: Implement the possibility to respond to animated collision meshes.
I dont have TGEA. Only TGE.
It is hard to say... sorry... but at the moment i don't see a reason FOR ME to switch to TGEA.
#72
Internal testing of Collada has been fairly successful, and frankly, not dealing with an exporter is great. Yes, there's the issue of a preview application like ShowTool, and yes, there's still more to do on the implementation and testing. But simply put, DTS has limitations that modern game art needs to transcend. Don't worry, one goal is to make sure your old models can be easily brought into the engine as Collada files without much (or any) modification. And my understanding is that DTS shapes will still be supported in Torque.
I kinda disagree with you about the possibility of automatic materials creation. Though it's not artist-friendly, the materials.cs file is simple and direct. Creating materials settings in a modeling program is never going to be an accurate preview for those same settings and textures in-engine, and no one would be happy with a guessing game like that. I hated working with the materials file at first, but it's a simple layout of all the basic materials functionality you have to work with, and nothing more. Now, I would love to see a simple app that previews using Torque that would allow you to load texture maps, create materials settings, and export a materials file, but I don't think fitting that functionality into a modeling app would be the best way to handle that. Just my opinion. :)
12/05/2008 (6:11 am)
Thanks Thomas. I was aware that there was a Lightwave exporter in the DTS exporter matrix, but I've never used it, and I just assumed from Allyn's post that here was something about it that wasn't working well for him.Internal testing of Collada has been fairly successful, and frankly, not dealing with an exporter is great. Yes, there's the issue of a preview application like ShowTool, and yes, there's still more to do on the implementation and testing. But simply put, DTS has limitations that modern game art needs to transcend. Don't worry, one goal is to make sure your old models can be easily brought into the engine as Collada files without much (or any) modification. And my understanding is that DTS shapes will still be supported in Torque.
I kinda disagree with you about the possibility of automatic materials creation. Though it's not artist-friendly, the materials.cs file is simple and direct. Creating materials settings in a modeling program is never going to be an accurate preview for those same settings and textures in-engine, and no one would be happy with a guessing game like that. I hated working with the materials file at first, but it's a simple layout of all the basic materials functionality you have to work with, and nothing more. Now, I would love to see a simple app that previews using Torque that would allow you to load texture maps, create materials settings, and export a materials file, but I don't think fitting that functionality into a modeling app would be the best way to handle that. Just my opinion. :)
#73
GG can develop a new version of the DTS-Format. And the mission editor can look at the header of the file to get the version number. So that should not be the problem. If a engine has its own mesh format is advantageous... it is optimized. So import dae, fbx... whatever you want..., modify the mesh and export it to dts.
You know Morphmaps/Endomorphs in Lightwave? The new dts format could provide this and we, the developer, are happy because we can do Facial Animation without to use Bones.
A mesh viewer has to show everything is needed. And if a material.cs is automatically created the developer has a basic material construct. He can use this basic material as starting point.
12/05/2008 (8:54 am)
@RusselQuote:
But simply put, DTS has limitations that modern game art needs to transcend.
GG can develop a new version of the DTS-Format. And the mission editor can look at the header of the file to get the version number. So that should not be the problem. If a engine has its own mesh format is advantageous... it is optimized. So import dae, fbx... whatever you want..., modify the mesh and export it to dts.
You know Morphmaps/Endomorphs in Lightwave? The new dts format could provide this and we, the developer, are happy because we can do Facial Animation without to use Bones.
Quote:
I kinda disagree with you about the possibility of automatic materials creation
A mesh viewer has to show everything is needed. And if a material.cs is automatically created the developer has a basic material construct. He can use this basic material as starting point.
#74
Sincerely I think that this more or less is a direction that GG has yet took into consideration (this is just a personal speculation!).
Also the ability to view .DIF in this new Showtool would be great but maybe GG has yet took into consideration the idea to integrate in a similar way constructor into the engine and this would be also better! Again, this is just personal speculation but I think this would be not so strange, when Constructor was in development Matt Fairfax spent some words about the possibility to integrate it into the engine...
What is not really clear to me is if GG thinks to drop the BSP geometry usage in favour of polysoup or not (I hope NOT!)...
From some comments seams to me thay want, from some other comments seams to me they don't want... Some people still retain that BSP can be a nice advantage in terms of impact on FPS because of the simple collision but I'm really really not in the position to express a valid point of view on that...
It's embarassing to say that but my prefer for BSP it's mainly because of the easying in creating them!
Eheheh ^_*'
Sorry if I made too many speculations, GG can punish me deleting all purchased products from the Download Section in my account... LOL! (NO! I was just jocking !!! Sigh !!! ...)
P.S. Sorry I didn't put a lot of attention in grammar and spelling in this post, I'm really too tired... I've spent all the day doing my baggage (...leaving tomorrow for Bruxelles to visit European Community institutions for a travel of studying with my university... and very happy about that! :D )
12/05/2008 (1:03 pm)
I think that other people has yet point out the same opinion I have, that the most convenient place to have a material editor in is in a new Showtool... and since it will obviously have to be derived from the engine itself, having it integrated into the engine for realtime modification would be really nice (and in line with what competitors engines has yet)... The advantage to load and view shapes quickly could be manteined dotating the engine executables with a command line parameter that make it load simply what needed by this ipotized new Showtool...Sincerely I think that this more or less is a direction that GG has yet took into consideration (this is just a personal speculation!).
Also the ability to view .DIF in this new Showtool would be great but maybe GG has yet took into consideration the idea to integrate in a similar way constructor into the engine and this would be also better! Again, this is just personal speculation but I think this would be not so strange, when Constructor was in development Matt Fairfax spent some words about the possibility to integrate it into the engine...
What is not really clear to me is if GG thinks to drop the BSP geometry usage in favour of polysoup or not (I hope NOT!)...
From some comments seams to me thay want, from some other comments seams to me they don't want... Some people still retain that BSP can be a nice advantage in terms of impact on FPS because of the simple collision but I'm really really not in the position to express a valid point of view on that...
It's embarassing to say that but my prefer for BSP it's mainly because of the easying in creating them!
Eheheh ^_*'
Sorry if I made too many speculations, GG can punish me deleting all purchased products from the Download Section in my account... LOL! (NO! I was just jocking !!! Sigh !!! ...)
P.S. Sorry I didn't put a lot of attention in grammar and spelling in this post, I'm really too tired... I've spent all the day doing my baggage (...leaving tomorrow for Bruxelles to visit European Community institutions for a travel of studying with my university... and very happy about that! :D )
#75
I know what your going to say "Torque is a very cheap game engine for delivering high-performance features", but it is one of the many questions that I am thinking of.
12/21/2008 (1:24 pm)
Here's a question... If TGEA may replace TGE in the future, then what about the price? Will TGEA go down to the same price as TGE if TGE is scraped off? And if so, what about the people who already payed a higher price? Would they get a refund?I know what your going to say "Torque is a very cheap game engine for delivering high-performance features", but it is one of the many questions that I am thinking of.
#76
12/21/2008 (3:20 pm)
@Tyler: What's more likely is that TGEA will remain priced as it is, and TGE will as well so long as it sold on GG.com. I expect Torque 3D, the successor to TGEA will be a more expensive product. There doesn't seem to be any reason to contemplate refunds for any products sold. 
Torque Owner Will Zettler
Digital Lightstorm Game Studio
I have enjoyed TGE for several years now, it is a great beginner engine to use and build from. I've used it and still use it, for testing before anything goes into TGEA 1.7.1 or soon, 1.8. I've always enjoyed the ease of use with it, no shaders to worry about, nothing special to run... just drop your content in and go. Yeah I know, TGEA is getting like that, and I've been a big fan of both engines, learning to work more with TGEA now that the effort is swinging in that direction. But TGE is and always will be a great engine.
I think the engine should go as you guys listed, something like the old ID tech stuff. GPL or whatnot seems to work wonders. The TGE is a dying tech, but it is still a cool engine, even if TGE is going the way of the dodo. I think it was always a strong engine for a beginner to learn from and work with. Maybe now, since everything is going TGEA, we might see it released with source for free or a small fee and see what those talents who haven't got in on the TGE can do with it. Would be amazing I'm sure.
Will