Get Skooled! TorqueSchool Announcement

Submit your own resources!

Ed Johnson   (Jul 18, 2007 at 17:11 GMT)

I am so proud to be a part of this :-)

Christian S   (Jul 18, 2007 at 17:11 GMT)

OH!

Man this is totally great Dave. Grats and all, and hot dang Ive been looking forward to this one :)

Michael Perry   (Jul 18, 2007 at 17:13 GMT)

Finally!!! I'm so stoked to be involved. Time to Skool some people =)

Adam Beer   (Jul 18, 2007 at 17:18 GMT)

How can you pay?

Ed Johnson   (Jul 18, 2007 at 17:22 GMT)

Adam: there will be various methods including Paypal, Credit/Debit cards, etc... just like any good online store :)

Adam Beer   (Jul 18, 2007 at 17:24 GMT)

Good to hear that paypal has finally been looked to as a payment method.

Mark Dynna   (Jul 18, 2007 at 17:27 GMT)

I've been waiting for this to be announced! I'm very happy to be involved with it and look forward to helping everyone who signs up for classes.

Jonathon Stevens   (Jul 18, 2007 at 17:43 GMT)

Can I get a what what?

Arcanor   (Jul 18, 2007 at 17:45 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Big news! :)

Flybynight Studios   (Jul 18, 2007 at 19:25 GMT)

Edited: for tone

Sorry Dave. Wish you the best of luck. I hope that this school doesnt end up taking some of the great resource people out of the GG community.

I'll leave it at that.

Cheers.
Edited on Jul 18, 2007 20:01 GMT

Dave Young   (Jul 18, 2007 at 19:48 GMT)

This is a joint venture between GarageGames and Dream Games. We put quite a lot back into the community and will continue to do so: we're here to serve, not the other way around.

One of our goals is also to offer guest speaker sessions and exclusive access to key talent here in the community as well, which is extremely handy.

I know the 1 year $10,000 contest is also giving a little something back to the community. But, we do have our critics :)

We are launching this venture to address a need. People will certainly be able to figure out whether or not the need applies to them!

Thanks for the best wishes part anyway, good luck on your own MMO, I've enjoyed watching it progress!
Edited on Jul 18, 2007 20:03 GMT

Ed Johnson   (Jul 18, 2007 at 19:50 GMT)

Quote:

---

"I'd hate for this "Torque School" to be just another way of taking talent out of the community pool and chargin for it."

---

I can't speak for the other instructors, but I am no way taking my 'talent' out of the community pool... in fact I plan on being even more active in the community and releasing free content, articles, tutorials, and various other things.

We've found some of the best and brightest from the community and given them a chance to teach what they know. Whether it is worth the price or not is entirely up to you and your needs, but $200 is cheap for 4-6 weeks of online tutoring. Have you checked college course prices recently?

Michael Perry   (Jul 18, 2007 at 20:56 GMT)

My response to:

Quote:

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I\'d hate for this \"Torque School\" to be just another way of taking talent out of the community pool and chargin for it.

---

Can be found in most recent blog:

Quote:

---

As much as I love programming, I enjoy helping others a lot more. I will still make every effort to support the community and supply resources and documentation, but I will now use Torque School as my main median of instruction.

---

Ed Johnson and myself started our collaboration to give back to the community, and we both started to deliver on this. Torque School will not end this, believe me. This will actually give a lot more back to the community, and I'm willing to go into a 5 page rant to explain if need be =)

On a personal note, the extra money this will provide brings me one step closer to replacing my day job, which would give me even more time to work with Torque Technology and provide for the community.

This venture will benefit both the participants who pay to attend, and those who do not.

Mark   (Jul 18, 2007 at 21:34 GMT)

you guys came along just in time...

Britt Scott   (Jul 19, 2007 at 04:08 GMT)

Any chance of teaching through DVD's, such as the way gnomon does? I would think making Torque teaching DVDs would receive more interest because indie developers don't always have certain free time slots available. Just a thought.

BigPapa   (Jul 19, 2007 at 04:38 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

My first suggestion for Torque School is to have an "adviser" or a questionnaire that can address the age old question of "I want to make games but don't know where to start".

An adviser or questionnaire can start with general questions like "why do you want to make games" and "what aspect of games do you enjoy the most" or "what skills do you have". Then elaborate more into the details and based on the answers, the student can be directed to a particular technology career like the game engines, audio design, 3d, etc.

I truly believe this should be address if it has not been done already. Otherwise students will take courses at random without a clear path.

Rasmus Boserup   (Jul 19, 2007 at 06:18 GMT)   Resource Rating: 4

This is just brilliant!

Anyone know what the prize for the courses will be yet?- im a poor student...do i need to plan ahead to be able to afford courses :-(
Edited on Jul 19, 2007 06:19 GMT

Trace Kern   (Jul 19, 2007 at 06:24 GMT)

Okay, got a question for anyone knowledgeable.
I want to register for course, each week of the course costs one credit, and each course is estimated at 4-6 weeks.

My question is this: Do I have to purchase all required credits up front before I can register? Or can I delay purchase of some credits till they are needed?

I ask because my personal budget would allow me to purchase two or three credits up front, but not the whole 4-6.
I'd need to be able to wait a couple weeks before I could afford the other half.

Finally, when does registration open up for the TGB courses?

Dave Young   (Jul 19, 2007 at 11:07 GMT)

@Britt:
Some courses are developing video material, so it's not out of the question completely, but would be a down-the-road kind of thing. The courses don't need a student to be present at specific time slots, you can review material at your leisure and turn in any turn-in assignments by their due dates. They do have a start and end date to hold to, and the live IRC sessions/guest speakers will be scheduled events also, but otherwise that's what the instructor, email and forums will be used for, to provide additional support along the way.

Courses are designed to provide step-by-step, discrete goal learning, to build up a skill and knowledge based oriented around specific tasks. A lot of work therefore is going into the course development and designing of turn-in assignments, and the instructor will be more of a facilitator and provide an additional support role and measure of advice and knowledge as needed for a student.


@BigPapa, great ideas on the career advisor wizard!

@Trace, you would need to purchase credits and register for a course in advance of it's starting date, there is still plenty of time before the courses launch. So as long as the course you're interested in does not fill up immediately, you should be OK.

We will be putting up course availability dates within the next couple of dates after we get an update on the progression of the course material development.

Matthew Langley   (Jul 19, 2007 at 15:24 GMT)

Very cool Dave and everyone involved. Have always been impressed with how ambitious and resourcefull you all have been.

Will O*Reagan   (Jul 19, 2007 at 18:19 GMT)

This sounds great, but I'd really like to hear more from Garage about what this is? The website doesn't really have that Garage Games feel. How does this relate to the current boot-camp scenario?

William Todd Scott   (Jul 21, 2007 at 17:04 GMT)

Dave,

I think this is a great idea and I am looking forward to seeing more information on the classes.

I'll throw out one suggestion that would make the courses more interesting for me. It would be great if the advanced courses could really drill down on a single topic. Even if they are smaller seminars. For example, a detailed walk through of properly implementing "warping" for the player class with detailed explanations of evry line of code in the player class that handles warping and suggestions on how to do it from the ground up.

This is just a suggestion of what I personally would like. I would be sucker for classes like this that really got down in the weeds.

Great to see yet another resource for improving our skills!

Todd

John Spivey   (Jul 22, 2007 at 18:57 GMT)

Quote:

---

Sorry Dave. Wish you the best of luck. I hope that this school doesnt end up taking some of the great resource people out of the GG community.

---

Well I started to do my own Constructor tutorials page for FREE and got lilttle to no response on it. This way people will know where to look and get the specific training they require. Its a great idea and I hope that people get behind it.

Will O*Reagan   (Jul 22, 2007 at 19:47 GMT)

In plain english, the site looks shady. I'd suggest adding a phone number to your contact information. Its good you added a fax, some people will not respect you if you don't have a fax. Also, too many courses, not enough information about what they are or what the'll do. I had a really great expereince going to the Garage Games bootcamps. A couple times, which is frankly, 5X more expensive then your classes. But your TorqueSchool scares me. And I get the same feeling at MyDreamRPG. You should try establishing yourselves a little more, building up some real company history, and offering less a bit less to start out with the same end goals. Its good you are upfront about what you hope to accomplish, but you also need to have more of what you are accomplishing finished and understandable for us that don't know about your plan. Offer a few good products, that you think people could actually use, and see what you can build from there. Be clear about what people are going to be getting out of the program, and offer opt outs, and refunds, and things of that nature. Get your own credit card system going, and don't use paypal. Whats with the TorqueCredit thing? We are going to want refunds. Thats part of schools, its a reality. There will be dropouts, and lots of them. I'm sorry, this just doesn't look very well researched at all. You need to offer more information about your instructors, their resumes, etc. As well as many other things which seem missing. If you want to teach you should have MAs or BAs. You mention Bret Seyer and Stephen Zepp on your page, but what did they do to make this a reality? Some quotes from them would at least give us an idea of what we have to go on. Another alarming fact is that you are based out of MA, which is a long way from Eugene, Oregon. It just seems fishy to me, and I get the same feeling from MyDreamRPG, that theres going to be a lot of dissapointed participants. Also, whats with this quote "Well, you're in good company now". Is this some kind of joke? I think alot of people in the community would be happy to take these classes, or teach these classes(including myself), but you need to clean up the whole process a bit more. On top of everything else, the TorqueSchool website looks week. If you are programmers, you should be able to come up with a website which is at least better then the website for the bar accross the street.. I'm sorry, I just think alot of people are not sold on this idea yet. You need to clean up.

Dave Young   (Jul 22, 2007 at 21:34 GMT)

@William The courses are certainly meant to get down to the ground with each topic and teach very specific skills

@Will O Reagan: Wow! This was an introductory post to announce the project and garner feedback, glad we piqued your interest. Let me address some of your questions and implied questions. All your feedback will be taken into respectful consideration.

The need for this endeavor is extremely well researched and many people have a lot of time into it. The implementation of it is still a work in progress, as is the website of course. The quality of the materials and people contributing is hands down on an unquestionably high level. The idea grew out of the mydreamrpg community clamoring and showing repeated need for more indepth education, as well as gaping holes in the dozens of teams who come to our doors looking for help.

The school is an online school, it's not based out of anywhere. Our company is based out of Georgia, and I happen to live in MA. It doesn't make me, or the things I get involved with, shady. GarageGames is our partner in this, they have been intricately involved in the decisions, and will continue to play a pivotal role in overseeing the quality of the materials and the advancement of technology for the Torque brands. I'm sure you will hear from them soon if it will increase your comfort level in some way.

To teach someone, you need to have knowledge they don't. We've been tutoring and teaching people in the shady mydreamrpg community for well over a year now. I've been helping others and teaching the majority of my life. One of our instructors is a NASA scientist. Didn't ask him if he had a MA or BA when he demonstrated the right topic knowledge. Whoops, silly me :)

A TorqueSchool Credit is a way for people to begin to buy credits which they can later apply to classes, we are offering it now because some asked for it so they can quickly reserve a seat when the signups begin. It's also a pricepoint. If it doesn't interest you, I think you know the deal... Regardless, you are not the first to frown or heap insult upon a new venture, and I'm certain you won't be the last, not a problem. Either way, you're still in good company - no joke ;)

Will O*Reagan   (Jul 22, 2007 at 23:16 GMT)

I think in both your ventures, you are making the same mistake. Underestimating the general intelligence of your community.

BTW..
Intro to Torque Game Builder X (TGBX)
Advanced Torque Game Builder X (TGBX)

Should be..
Intro to Torque Game Builder X (TXB)
Advanced Torque Game Builder X (TXB)


If you want to teach, you should at least use the proper acronyms., TorqueX Builder hasn't been refered to as TGBX for quite some time. You sound like a bunch of hacks, and that is always a sad occurance, when a student is taught by a hack. It is sad because hacks mainly produce shallow copies of themselves, because they lack the capacity to impart the skills necessary to put thier students ahead of the competition. A skilled teacher never would have made such a mistake as the one mentioned above, because he would be hip and involved in every aspect of his subject, before he made any statements or declarations on intent to teach it.
Edited on Jul 22, 2007 23:18 GMT

Michael Perry   (Jul 22, 2007 at 23:33 GMT)

Will O*Reagan-

Excuse me. Have you just referred to myself and my friends/colleagues as hacks? I don't know what chip you are carrying on your shoulder, or why you feel the need to make assumptions about something you so clearly know little about, but you really need to take the time to do your own research.

By the way, I'm sure you are quite aware of the phrase "When you assume, you make an ass out of you and me both?" The course instructors are the ones who chose the titles and abbreviations of their classes, not DreamGames Inc or Dave Young.

To answer your accusations, the following people are involved in this venture: instructors with BAs, instructors with MAs, instructors with years of experience beyond YOUR's in both teaching and Torque Technology, Stephen Zepp, etc, etc.

What do you have to gain by smearing this project, which is intended to help the community first and foremost?
Edited on Jul 23, 2007 15:32 GMT

Edward   (Jul 23, 2007 at 15:23 GMT)

Maybe Will'o you should check out the reference of the people you are are calling hacks, you might want to start with Dave Young. Enough said.

Ed Johnson   (Jul 23, 2007 at 15:31 GMT)

Don't feed the trolls :-)

Ed Johnson   (Jul 23, 2007 at 15:41 GMT)

Will, why don't you drop by irc.mydreamrpg.com:16667 #mydreamrpg and speak to some of these people before you make broad assumptions about our motives and intelligence. :-)

or, quick link here. Hope to see you there!

Will O*Reagan   (Jul 23, 2007 at 19:12 GMT)

Quote:

---

What do you have to gain by smearing this project, which is intended to help the community first and foremost?

---

The pride that you took away when you created your nasty website.

Michael Perry   (Jul 23, 2007 at 19:17 GMT)

Zombie Shortbus is a nasty site? True, it's a little basic, but it's gotten great reviews so far =)
Edited on Jul 23, 2007 19:18 GMT

Bloodknight   (Jul 23, 2007 at 20:01 GMT)

I can always understand people who are sceptical, i can also understand to a degree some people who are cynical.

But i will never understand how outright hatred and insults will help achieve anything in this world.

i hope GG will not allow such things to continue and more actively moderate these un-necessary spats.

@will in your first pots you made some reasonable comments, all be it in a tone that could have been better, but you certainly resort to irrational hatred for no real reason, this sort of thing lowers the value of a whole community. While i dont necessarily agree with your initial comments in entirety i do understand the logic behind some of them, i also believe dave addressed most of them.

I hope that the whole things works out for this venture, ive seen so many websites both free and commercial offering game design/creation/related tutoring die in the past through lack of interest, and truly hope that the community here doesnt let the same happen here

John Dungan   (Jul 27, 2007 at 04:53 GMT)   Resource Rating: 1

This is a sad day for all Torque owners. Dave Young is a crook it really sucks the Dream Games scumbags are pulling from this community for the sole purpose of personal profit. Everyone who purchased the mmokit or titas got ripped off. Not to mention Dave's Gold Member extortion raket. Now they want to fleece this community for more money and pull its true talent for instructors. How sad is that?

Its obvious the mmokit and titas sucked and was rip off so why does G>G> keep throwing these scumbags a bone. I say Dave Young needs to go to prison not sponge more money off this community!

Hey G.G. I would love to take some classes but I wouldn't pay dream games another penny for anything! They are documented liars and I believe they are extortionists so NO THANKS!

Not only was the mmokit a ripoff but when I put them to the hard questions they ignored me so I made myself hard to ignore. They deleted my posts and wrote lies about what they said and multiple members of their staff attacked me with insults, put downs and name calling and when I reciprocated they banned me.

I certainly don't want anything to do with Dave Young or anyone affiliated with Dream Games!
Edited on Jul 27, 2007 05:26 GMT

Brett Seyler   (Jul 27, 2007 at 05:44 GMT)

Going to ignore some of the puzzling negativity and focus on the excitement we have at GarageGames about the opportunity this presents to everyone in the community and beyond.

Currently (excepting our Boot Camps which are very effective, but a bit far and too infrequent for many Torque users to take advantage of) the only way to really learn Torque products is to use them, read the forums, post questions where necessary, get feedback, and repeat. This process has created some outstanding developers and we're proud of that, but no doubt the process could be improved with some standardization of the advice and instruction that's out there. We don't want the forums to stop acting as a resource for developers. It's my belief that the biggest change we'll see in having more GG'ers using formal instruction to begin with is that the quality of questions and feedback in the forums will be markedly improved. Will there still be room for beginners to ask questions without scorn? Of course! But those beginners are likely to move to proficiency in Torque at a faster pace with online courses as an additional resource.

To be clear, GarageGames will still run Boot Camps and we will work with Dave Young to guide his instructors in creating content that makes sense for online instruction. We may release instruction video modules in the future, and you may see new books available, but regardless, we think the Dream Games initiative here has real promise and we want to help it succeed. Good luck Dave and thanks to all the instructors who are helping drive TorqueSchool.

-Brett

PS. Torque Game Builder X (TGBX) is now Torque X Builder (TXB)
Edited on Jul 27, 2007 05:46 GMT

Kevin McLaughlin   (Jul 27, 2007 at 12:51 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Interesting. I, for one, think the MMOKit was worth every cent I spent on it. Particularly, I am enjoying the steady stream of updates all the buyers are still getting, for no extra cost. Are you sure you're thinking of the same company? ;) Your comments don't sound like anything I've ever seen or experienced there.

TorqueSchool should be a great opportunity. It's been said over and over that Torque is a GREAT engine, with a very steep learning curve. A lot of people buy a license, get frustrated quickly, and drop it. Solid instruction should be a great way to help guide more of those people to become competent Torque developers.

And with GarageGames guiding all of the course content to be taught, it's not like the school is being run by "some random joe". Their support guarantees that the courses being taught will be quality stuff taught by quality instructors.

Rasmus Boserup   (Jul 27, 2007 at 13:03 GMT)   Resource Rating: 4

<ignoring all negative posts and asking a question>

Is there any ETA for the course descriptions, and when will sign up for the courses begin?

Thx.

Dave Young   (Jul 27, 2007 at 13:10 GMT)

Rasmus, you can expect the first to show up within the next week or so, we're working hard to ensure the quality of the materials and get all the i's and t's dotted and crossed!

Arcanor   (Jul 27, 2007 at 13:31 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

@John Dungan:

Your post is rude, insulting, slanderous, and offensive. This is not appropriate in any forum, especially not a public one.

You're entitled to your opinion, but please don't force it on the rest of us who may choose to disagree with your assessment of Dream Games, the MMOKit, and Dave Young's character. Thanks so much.

There seems to be a huge amount of interest in this project, and I believe it will be a tremendous boost both to Garage Games, and also to the community as a whole.

Thanks for dreaming this up Dave! I'm behind you 100%.

Jonathon Stevens   (Jul 27, 2007 at 15:05 GMT)

I'm just curious why GG would allow an offensive, demeaning and attacking post stay on the forum? It might be rocky ground to have to moderate a poster or post, but when it's completely and obviously abusive, then it should be a no-brainer....

As per TorqueSchool? Only the words of the famous Cartman will suffice:

"Schweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet"

Edward   (Jul 30, 2007 at 19:40 GMT)

Thats a shame, You know people should do there home work, half the people have put resources (the really big ones) are written by people that have been a part or are currently part of Dream Games, The Torque school is the best thing since the MMOKIT was invented. Its funny how some people dont actually look at what they are writing.

Gustavo Boni   (Aug 07, 2007 at 14:29 GMT)   Resource Rating: 4

I cant register in the TorqeuSchool website, someone with the same problem? I get a message error saying the security code is wrong.

Dave Young   (Aug 07, 2007 at 18:51 GMT)

It's been disabled Gustavo, sorry about that!

Gustavo Boni   (Aug 07, 2007 at 19:14 GMT)   Resource Rating: 4

Edit: Now i got it, finally i could register in the website. Thanks!

Hey Dave, how can i subscribe to a class? Also im not seeing a place to buy credits.
Edited on Aug 07, 2007 22:05 GMT

Rasmus Boserup   (Aug 08, 2007 at 13:11 GMT)   Resource Rating: 4

I think the site is being upgraded the next few days - thats why stuff aint working :-)

James Dunlap   (Aug 08, 2007 at 15:12 GMT)

Ahh, at last, Torque will have its very own Hogwarts. Except we won't have to ware the dorky dresses, wave twigs, and drool over a guy with a stamp over his forehead.

On a slightly more serious note. I think this is a great idea and will be very successful because the world is full of people, differnt types of people and not all of us learn the same way. Some people prefer to learn by pure trial and error no instructions necessary. Others thrive midst the sea of tutorials, documentation, resources, forums, chatrooms, hints and tricks. However, not everyone is a self motivated self starter. Some people really do learn better in a more structured (classroom) environment. I would even say its most and not some people who learn this way. The very fact that the School will force learners to schedule their learning may just be all the person needed.

I suspect you will find that Torque school will end up growing in the community and making it more knowledgeable as a whole. Three Cheers to GG and Dave Young for pioneering the future!

Rasmus Boserup   (Aug 23, 2007 at 18:45 GMT)   Resource Rating: 4

Are there any updates yet?
(Edit: for some reason the rest of my post got cut....*sigh*)
Edited on Aug 23, 2007 18:46 GMT

Dave Young   (Aug 23, 2007 at 18:58 GMT)

The project is going quite strong, course review is underway and we will be setting final prices very soon!

Dave Young   (Sep 21, 2007 at 13:51 GMT)

We have the first few courses up for registration, and seats are filling up quickly!

John E. Nelson   (Sep 05, 2008 at 18:57 GMT)

The TorqueSchool.com site does not seem to be functional anymore. There is a message about database errors. Is the school operational anymore? I had purchased a class.

Dave Young   (Sep 05, 2008 at 19:04 GMT)

Which class John? We can arrange to get you the materials. There is a problem with the 3rd party LMS software that is taking quite some time to resolve.

John E. Nelson   (Sep 05, 2008 at 22:33 GMT)

I just emailed you. Thanks!

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