Official Artist Documentation Feedback
by Michael Perry · in Artist Corner · 06/18/2008 (5:13 am) · 41 replies
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This Thread Is The Official Documentation Feedback Area For ALL Tools, Tutorials and docs related to asset development for Torque Technology.
If you want to quick search for all Doc Updates, perform a keyword search in your browser for "Documentation Update:"
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Hey everyone. It's about time we have a central thread for artists to post their feedback in regard to documentation.
We have similar threads posted for each of the Torque engines, and so far the feedback has been overwhelmingly positive, constructive, and very helpful to the doc writers. Due to its success, we are giving artists their own thread to discuss the documentation for the tools used to get your art into Torque games.
Purpose of the Thread:
- Provide a central thread for artists to post their thoughts, suggestions, and criticisms about documentation. If possible, try and keep the dialog *specific* about the tool you are discussing, which can include 3D Studio Max Exporters, May Exporters, Constructor, Houdini, Blender and so on.
Targets:
- Official documentation provided by GarageGames.
- We can also discuss TDN and user-submitted articles if you know of some outside sources that should be included in new documentation.
Suggestions for Posts:
- What is the #1 thing you would like added to the official docs?
- What area of the docs do you think needs the most work?
- What do you see in other tech docs, be it for other Torque engines or non-Torque tech, that you think would be beneficial to have in the docs?
- What are your feeling on TDN vs how the current official docs are presented?
- Bring attention to resources, tutorials, articles, or community member submissions you think should be merged into the official docs
...etc, etc
So, the overall concept of this thread is pretty simple. This is your chance to talk until your face turns blue about what you want from the docs. In regard to documentation, we are pushing to give artists the same level of attention we are giving the engine developers.
Be as clear, descriptive, and specific as you can!
This Thread Is The Official Documentation Feedback Area For ALL Tools, Tutorials and docs related to asset development for Torque Technology.
If you want to quick search for all Doc Updates, perform a keyword search in your browser for "Documentation Update:"
=========================================================================
Hey everyone. It's about time we have a central thread for artists to post their feedback in regard to documentation.
We have similar threads posted for each of the Torque engines, and so far the feedback has been overwhelmingly positive, constructive, and very helpful to the doc writers. Due to its success, we are giving artists their own thread to discuss the documentation for the tools used to get your art into Torque games.
Purpose of the Thread:
- Provide a central thread for artists to post their thoughts, suggestions, and criticisms about documentation. If possible, try and keep the dialog *specific* about the tool you are discussing, which can include 3D Studio Max Exporters, May Exporters, Constructor, Houdini, Blender and so on.
Targets:
- Official documentation provided by GarageGames.
- We can also discuss TDN and user-submitted articles if you know of some outside sources that should be included in new documentation.
Suggestions for Posts:
- What is the #1 thing you would like added to the official docs?
- What area of the docs do you think needs the most work?
- What do you see in other tech docs, be it for other Torque engines or non-Torque tech, that you think would be beneficial to have in the docs?
- What are your feeling on TDN vs how the current official docs are presented?
- Bring attention to resources, tutorials, articles, or community member submissions you think should be merged into the official docs
...etc, etc
So, the overall concept of this thread is pretty simple. This is your chance to talk until your face turns blue about what you want from the docs. In regard to documentation, we are pushing to give artists the same level of attention we are giving the engine developers.
Be as clear, descriptive, and specific as you can!
About the author
Programmer.
#2
As I said, I'm not an artist, so I'm looking at contracting out all of my art needs. Because I'm also an indie, I don't have a lot of money to spend so I'm looking all over to find the best price I can for contract art work. Many of these artists are quite skilled but have never made anything for Torque DTS format before. So, the first question they ask me is "What do I need to do for this format?" I don't really have a single place to point them right now, so it would be great if there was a document like that.
06/18/2008 (9:12 am)
I'm no artist, so I have a different perspective on this, but here are my thoughts. What I would love to have is a single, concise, document on what is unique about the Torque DTS format, and what is required for creating art to be exported to DTS.As I said, I'm not an artist, so I'm looking at contracting out all of my art needs. Because I'm also an indie, I don't have a lot of money to spend so I'm looking all over to find the best price I can for contract art work. Many of these artists are quite skilled but have never made anything for Torque DTS format before. So, the first question they ask me is "What do I need to do for this format?" I don't really have a single place to point them right now, so it would be great if there was a document like that.
#3
Good information so far, so keep it coming folks. Keep in mind, though, that the focus is official docs. Fixing TDN articles is a whole 'nother story, but if you find good articles on TDN that should be in the official docs please post the links.
06/18/2008 (9:41 am)
@L Foster and Mark - Thanks for being the first to join in =)Good information so far, so keep it coming folks. Keep in mind, though, that the focus is official docs. Fixing TDN articles is a whole 'nother story, but if you find good articles on TDN that should be in the official docs please post the links.
#4
If not then to be perfectly honest all the documentation that exists in the wild out there is fine. Joe did a monumental job documenting the DTS exporters and everyone has based their further documentation for specific applications from that. As such, aside from refining the docs a bit to update them for current versions of an application and adding a few more minor notes here and there to clarify things, there honestly isn't a lot that can be done. The reason for this is that there are dozens of ways that you can setup and create a DTS file and they all work and are all valid.
06/18/2008 (10:22 am)
Sorry I am confused, aren't TDN and the "official" docs one an the same since that is where everyone is being pushed towards using as well as the fact that it is a central repository of information?If not then to be perfectly honest all the documentation that exists in the wild out there is fine. Joe did a monumental job documenting the DTS exporters and everyone has based their further documentation for specific applications from that. As such, aside from refining the docs a bit to update them for current versions of an application and adding a few more minor notes here and there to clarify things, there honestly isn't a lot that can be done. The reason for this is that there are dozens of ways that you can setup and create a DTS file and they all work and are all valid.
#5
06/18/2008 (10:45 am)
L Foster, do have a link for these docs that Joe created? I'm not sure if I've ever found them.
#6
Official docs refer to what is shipped with a Torque engine, and what can be found on garagegames.com. Still, you posted some good info =)
06/18/2008 (11:10 am)
@L Foster - The TDN is a community driven project. There might be one or two official docs from GG put on there, but for the most part it's user-submitted articles.Official docs refer to what is shipped with a Torque engine, and what can be found on garagegames.com. Still, you posted some good info =)
#7
You can find them either on TDN (way down at the bottom of the page) or on the page I host them on still.
@Michael
Since the vast majority of artists don't actually buy TGE/TBG/TGEA, any art related documents that ship with the engine is kind of a waste since they will never have access to them. As such the "official docs" for DTS art creation are what you find hosted here on the GG pages (and TDN since they are hosted by GG and GG does put the time and effort in to update things like the DTS docs when they can) or in the wild.
06/18/2008 (12:59 pm)
@MarkYou can find them either on TDN (way down at the bottom of the page) or on the page I host them on still.
@Michael
Since the vast majority of artists don't actually buy TGE/TBG/TGEA, any art related documents that ship with the engine is kind of a waste since they will never have access to them. As such the "official docs" for DTS art creation are what you find hosted here on the GG pages (and TDN since they are hosted by GG and GG does put the time and effort in to update things like the DTS docs when they can) or in the wild.
#8
We should have the one place that take care of teaching you everything you need to know to export your art, without having to go to secondary sites or searching in billions of resources or such.
Beside, I never got to have a precise response about limits of the number of animations can a character support, or about if yes or not, using multiple UV has real consequences or not, etc. We need to know about all the limitation we could encounter, and why they happen (so maybe a programmer could try to overcome them if needed for the project).
06/23/2008 (9:51 pm)
I did successfully learned how to export things out of maya to DTS, but I'm not sure a lot of people would be as willing to lurk everywhere and take hours and days to simply find the relevant informations. We should have the one place that take care of teaching you everything you need to know to export your art, without having to go to secondary sites or searching in billions of resources or such.
Beside, I never got to have a precise response about limits of the number of animations can a character support, or about if yes or not, using multiple UV has real consequences or not, etc. We need to know about all the limitation we could encounter, and why they happen (so maybe a programmer could try to overcome them if needed for the project).
#9
Now, while I love generating first party documentation, outside sources should not be ignored. There are some pretty awesome video tutorials hosted on other sites, so linking to those would be a logical and beneficial thing to do.
So there will be times when you will have to click to go outside of the site, but usually the information will have to be extremely useful or up to date to get linked.
Thanks again!
06/24/2008 (5:32 am)
@Benjamin - Cool feedback =). I agree that there needs to be a cleaner, central hub to access artist documentation. The artist documentation was that at one point, but it is in need of a desperate overhaul and updated links.Now, while I love generating first party documentation, outside sources should not be ignored. There are some pretty awesome video tutorials hosted on other sites, so linking to those would be a logical and beneficial thing to do.
So there will be times when you will have to click to go outside of the site, but usually the information will have to be extremely useful or up to date to get linked.
Thanks again!
#10
1. Would it be a good idea to have this thread moved over to the Torque Public Art Forum? I created the thread in this location in haste, and am now thinking I should have it running in its correct spot.
2. Anyone have links to any solid Blender tutorials? I'm juggling lots of tasks right now, and my knowledge of Blender and its resources is < 0.
I'm hard at work on your docs right now =)
06/26/2008 (11:28 am)
Hey all!. I have two quick questions, for those of you who are following this thread:1. Would it be a good idea to have this thread moved over to the Torque Public Art Forum? I created the thread in this location in haste, and am now thinking I should have it running in its correct spot.
2. Anyone have links to any solid Blender tutorials? I'm juggling lots of tasks right now, and my knowledge of Blender and its resources is < 0.
I'm hard at work on your docs right now =)
#12
In regard to your own documentation work, keep at it! Hosting it on your own site instead of GG or TDN is fine. After all, you're the author =)
Keep me updated on your progress, and we'll make sure it gets exposure. The community wants frequently updated documentation, so even if you finish after a major release we'll still figure out ways to help your work get attention.
06/26/2008 (1:59 pm)
@Joseph - Awesome! Thanks for the quick response and posting of the links.In regard to your own documentation work, keep at it! Hosting it on your own site instead of GG or TDN is fine. After all, you're the author =)
Keep me updated on your progress, and we'll make sure it gets exposure. The community wants frequently updated documentation, so even if you finish after a major release we'll still figure out ways to help your work get attention.
#13
It's disturbing me that I can't find reference or overview docs for the Blender exporter.
The links to the tutorials are fantastic, but I'm also trying to find docs which cover setting up the plug-in, details of plug-in functionality, etc. Something that doesn't cover the export process, but the exporter itself.
Example: Maya2DTS Reference by Danny Ngan
Hmm....must keep digging.
Edit- My post didn't read the way I meant: What I meant was *my* inability to locate the docs. It's a part of the whole "documentation is scattered across the web" problem. I've encountered this with other tools and engine docs.
Edit 2 - The quickest way to find something is to create a post saying you can't find it...O.o (Blender Exporter User Interface)
06/27/2008 (7:34 am)
Gah...It's disturbing me that I can't find reference or overview docs for the Blender exporter.
The links to the tutorials are fantastic, but I'm also trying to find docs which cover setting up the plug-in, details of plug-in functionality, etc. Something that doesn't cover the export process, but the exporter itself.
Example: Maya2DTS Reference by Danny Ngan
Hmm....must keep digging.
Edit- My post didn't read the way I meant: What I meant was *my* inability to locate the docs. It's a part of the whole "documentation is scattered across the web" problem. I've encountered this with other tools and engine docs.
Edit 2 - The quickest way to find something is to create a post saying you can't find it...O.o (Blender Exporter User Interface)
#15
The New Documentation System is live!
Read my blog HERE
Here is the new Artist Page:
Main Landing Page
Artist Landing Page
08/14/2008 (9:46 am)
Documentation UpdateThe New Documentation System is live!
Read my blog HERE
Here is the new Artist Page:
Main Landing Page
Artist Landing Page
#17
So, for those of you following this thread, would you say the new artist landing page is a improvement? Small, vast, don't care? =)
08/14/2008 (11:06 am)
@Joseph - Gah! Thanks for the update on the new exporter. I had to stop updating stuff about a week ago to get ready for this online push. I'll use the new exporter in the next artist update.So, for those of you following this thread, would you say the new artist landing page is a improvement? Small, vast, don't care? =)
#19
08/14/2008 (11:15 am)
Sure, I can add a link to the project page. I'll post here when I've updated it. 
Associate Logan Foster
perPixel Studios
Please do not degrade this thread into a flame war about which app is better. Stow the baggage at the door.
@Michael
Thanks for creating this thread. I think you are going to get a lot of good, though varried feedback based on users experiance and expertise with the tools, so hopefully it doesn't make you mad trying to collect it all :)
My Experiance:
- Power User/Pro
- Using Torque Professionally on funded games
Official Docs:
1. Looking at TDN, it appears as though information on "sequences" has been buried into the "Creating a simple character" topic. Joe had written up a lengthy and thorough explaination of all the sequences and what they do in the old docs, which should be used for a whole chapter on "sequences". Also missing is a chapter on using a CFG, using UnmessDTS (and no its not just for cleaning up Multires LODs from 3DS Max files) and Troubleshooting (which is burried here on the GG site as resources and on TDN under creating a character). Lastly I had created a wonderful little DTS Nodes doc which should be dumped into TDN so that people know how the nodes actually work.
2. On the docs located on TDN I would say that the biggest thing is that consistency is needed. We should have the same tutorials for every 3D app, but outlining the different unique steps for each app. Someone should also go through and try to update the information in the tutorials to reflect changes in various versions (maybe a new feature is added to reduces a number of steps, button is renamed or placed elsewhere, etc.)
3. The biggest thing I see in other tech docs that are good is that the information is broken down and presented to the user in small, bite sized chunks. This is what Joe did on the original DTS docs and it worked out really well. Looking at TDN its like someone set some tech writers loose and told them that they get paid on a per word basis. The information is too verbose and while I am a huge fan of teaching someone the why, how and when to use a feature in a 3D app, the approach that is there now makes me not even want to read it because its so crammed in there. So my suggestion is to really break it apart, lots of headers, lots of simple steps for things (ie. creating detail levels for your mesh), stuff like that.
4. The biggest problem with the official docs is TDN itself. Users should not be required to log in to access information on the pages. This creates a bit of an "annoyance barrier" that people don't want to hop over. Secondly there is too much crap in TDN that isn't completed and just references you back to the older docs (case in point in the "DTS Reference Documentation" page there is "Lesson 2: Creating a simple shape" which talks about building a rotating radar dish, but the page isnt finished and just links you to the old, and IMHO much more appropriate, documentation for your first DTS lesson).